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Chinese Take-Away

Community Veteran
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Registered: 12-08-2007

Chinese Take-Away

The Chinese premier is in London and has signed £14Billion in trade deals. Of course these deals have been negotiated over a period and simply signed when the premier met David Cameron.
Initially the investment will be on HS2 and the Nuclear Industry. This will provide thousands of new jobs in this country and should speed up the progress in both projects.
Some people are concerned about the security risk in involving China but I assume this has been factored into the deals.
More deals are planned between the UK and China.
China Deal
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Community Veteran
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Registered: 02-08-2007

Re: Chinese Take-Away

Most things are about money and votes for politicians, not sure security comes high on the list, short term this will be good for jobs and the economy but  the Chinese are not stupid and much of the profits from these projects will go to China  in addition to increasing their influence in this country
WTF
Grafter
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Re: Chinese Take-Away

The Chinese have a policy of buying up developing countries - they clearly think we're about to leave the EU so will soon qualify  Grin
Community Veteran
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Re: Chinese Take-Away

The Chinese see this as an investment. There is no suggestion that they will operate HS2 or the power stations once they are operational. I assume full details will be given to Parliament by David Cameron once the visit has ended.
Community Veteran
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Re: Chinese Take-Away

They already p*wn the telecomms backbone in the UK.
Now Zen, but a +Net residue.
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Re: Chinese Take-Away

We've built Singapore's MRT and many other large overseas projects (until we ran out of engineering expertise) and we haven't taken over those countries! They provided much needed cash inflow and provided jobs for people in those places. It doesn't matter who owns the projects if the work is provided in the long term. Win-win as far as I'm concerned.
Community Veteran
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Re: Chinese Take-Away

London has also strengthened its position by a deal with the Chinese making London a hub for Chinese currency dealing.
Chinese Currency
@ nozzer, I agree with your comments. This deal is good for all concerned.
WTF
Grafter
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Re: Chinese Take-Away

Quote from: nozzer
we haven't taken over those countries

No - we'd done that a century earlier Grin
And we didn't so much take over Singapore and HK as create them (admittedly, long before they built the MRT).  As for the airport in Hong Kong, that was built simply as a means of extracting as much money as possible from the colony before handing it back to the Chinese when the lease ran out  Grin
But seriously, the real difference between those deals and this one is that this is the Chinese financing projects, not building them.  Think of the problems we currently have with all the schools and hospitals that were built under PFI.  Now multiply that by 10 .. or 100 .. or 1000.
Community Veteran
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Re: Chinese Take-Away

Quote from: WTF

 Think of the problems we currently have with all the schools and hospitals that were built under PFI.  Now multiply that by 10 .. or 100 .. or 1000.

Why do you say that? I don't follow your thinking Undecided
nanotm
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Re: Chinese Take-Away

you get them to pick up the bill today as a bonded loan, you start paying for the interest on the total amount upfront and in 20-30 years you repay the capital, total cost is at least 30x the initial cost, PFI contracts sell the building to the company financing the project, then rent it back under a 30 year lease with an associated bond guaranteeing repayment of the full amount and a lightweight interest payment annually (normally fixed between 5 and 10%) and lease extension options up to 99 years, maintenance of the property is the sole responsibility of the occupier and the site has to be offered complete to the landowner after 99 years, if they do a deal like that with the Chinese then china will actually own the project and be able to dictate the products used in its construction come from china.....that by its very nature would give them total control over the entire facility from afar or the ability to force compliance with Chinese interests instead of being able to take action against them when they do things the rest of the world disagrees with.......
another perhaps more pertinent point though is china is running out of land for its people, its been looking for longer term expansion options for decades (they knew full well the one child policy would never be long term when they implemented it) so don't be surprised to find them moving in a lot of people in the years ahead as the world starts to become Chinese (especially if they continue hoarding all the worlds cash with there fixed currency price nonsense) both in population and debt ownership
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Community Veteran
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Re: Chinese Take-Away

I'm fully aware how PFI contracts work, I'm involved in some. I'm also aware how the Chinese loans will work in principle. What I don't know, and you certainly don't, is the interest rates that have been negotiated so it's impossible for anyone to say it will be 10 .. or 100 .. or 1000 times worse than PFI.

Quote from: nanotm
another perhaps more pertinent point though is china is running out of land for its people, its been looking for longer term expansion options for decades (they knew full well the one child policy would never be long term when they implemented it) so don't be surprised to find them moving in a lot of people in the years ahead as the world starts to become Chinese (especially if they continue hoarding all the worlds cash with there fixed currency price nonsense) both in population and debt ownership

Are you really suggesting China will be moving their population into countries where they have been investing?  Fanciful rubbish. Do we have space for so many Chinese restaurants Grin
nanotm
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Re: Chinese Take-Away

given that they announced the proposal from the Chinese consortium head by there bank last year with a fixed term clause of getting 25% of the generating profits for the first 10 years of use I would guess there going to get about 500x there initial investment returned to them (particularly since they already have a guaranteed £50 per megawatt tariff with 5% per year increase for 25 years as part of the deal that allowed EDF to make the new plant)
if you know how a PFI contract works then your aware I take it of just how bad a deal they are over there contract life span for the tax payer....when I was involved in one some years ago it was blatantly obvious from the get go that it would of been cheaper over the first 3 years to have just borrowed the capital off the IMF and paid it back at the 1% rates but the contract went ahead because it made good press and lined the pockets of the right people regardless of what SME's said.....
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
randpwar
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Re: Chinese Take-Away

What you’re intimating is that you were involved at a high level in a high profile project involving financial dealings where a loan from the IMF could be an option…..all by someone that clearly doesn’t know the difference between ‘their’ and ‘there’. 
Community Veteran
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Registered: 12-08-2007

Re: Chinese Take-Away

...........just one of many mistakes, but then it could all be Chinese Grin
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Re: Chinese Take-Away

Quote from: artmo
Do we have space for so many Chinese restaurants Grin

Last time I had a Chinese meal was 33 years ago. I was doing a second job at the Royal Festival Hall and finished around 9pm every night for a week. Decided to get a Chinese each night on the way home but was violently ill after the 5th and haven't touched the stuff since.
For a while even the thought of a Chinese meal made me feel queasy. Maybe time to give it another go Roll eyes

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