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Cheating at Brexit

Anonymous
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Re: Cheating at Brexit

A couple of things about democracy, @7up.

  1. ”The people” can change their minds.
  2. It is not “disrespectful” to express a minority view, and to continue to advocate for alternatives. Our Parliamentary system, for example, gives an important role to the opposition.

I have not been “harping” on about a second referendum to “wipe out the choice that people made”. If you look back, you will see that I have asked whether the result of the referendum can be valid if it resulted from illegal activity by the leave side, and most recently have suggested opting for the Norwegian model as a compromise. But even if I had suggested a further referendum, how would that be wiping out the choice that people made? Unless, of course, you fear that the result would be different next time...

 

 

 

 

 

Community Veteran
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Re: Cheating at Brexit


@Anonymous wrote:

A couple of things about democracy, @7up.

  1. ”The people” can change their minds.
  2. It is not “disrespectful” to express a minority view, and to continue to advocate for alternatives. Our Parliamentary system, for example, gives an important role to the opposition.

I have not been “harping” on about a second referendum to “wipe out the choice that people made”. If you look back, you will see that I have asked whether the result of the referendum can be valid if it resulted from illegal activity by the leave side, and most recently have suggested opting for the Norwegian model as a compromise. But even if I had suggested a further referendum, how would that be wiping out the choice that people made? Unless, of course, you fear that the result would be different next time... 

 


The people changing their minds so frequently would throw the country into disarray. If we have a second referendum then what about a 3rd? 4th? 5th? Where do you draw the line? Oh yes.. wait one... when you get the result that you want and erase the previous one. That is not a democracy, that is vote rigging. If the people do want to change their minds and have another referendum it must be after the previous one has been acted on in order for the people to experience and then make a further choice based upon that.

Yes it is disrespectful to express a minority view especially when you yourself keep moaning that the referendum was won by the minority of the electorate that actually voted. You were not happy with the minority but then use it to back up your own side of the argument. You cannot have it both ways. Again, you're trying to fix things.

Illegal activity by the leave side or not, the voters made their choice and voted. It's done, it must now happen or we become a dictatorship instead of a democracy. Do you really want a dictatorship?

Now without being rude to you @Anonymous I'm getting a bit bored of this one track record that you keep playing on this forum. How about you post non political stuff for a bit instead? - I can stay in this thread and argue with you until the mods lock it (believe me it's happened plenty of times) but it will not achieve anything other than hostilities between us. That seems pointless.

Move on from brexit. Getting all wound up won't do you any good.

I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Cheating at Brexit

I was reassured to read this today:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/29/nine-senior-tories-want-amendments-to-eu-withdrawal...

This is not about “overthrowing the democratically expressed will of the people” or any such nonsense. It is about the sovereignty of Parliament (which I thought was one of the things brexiters wanted) and hopefully about exploring a softer Brexit than the cabinet seem set on. This can only be good news for a country which has been split in two by the referendum.

Community Veteran
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Re: Cheating at Brexit

Not about overthrowing the result? So how come you keep whining about having a second referendum then?

You certainly change your tune a lot don't you.

I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
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Re: Cheating at Brexit

Moderator's note:

I have removed two posts that were bordering on insults.

 

Keep posts civil or they will be removed/threads locked and possible further action taken.

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Anonymous
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Re: Cheating at Brexit

An interesting tweet from Guy Verhofstadt:

I do my best to reply to the 1000s of messages I receive each month from British ppl who dont want their EU citizenship taken away from them. Many of you remind me there‘s a passionate proEU movement campaigning for your rights.I guarantee this fight is also a priority for the EP

https://mobile.twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/979331299256172554

 

It it is good to know that the European Parliament is looking out for those like me, even when the U.K. government is not!

 

Anonymous
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Re: Cheating at Brexit

@Mav

So it looks like the Mods are Brexit supporters as well, then. :crazy2:

Moderator
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Re: Cheating at Brexit

Not just Brexit - Yorxit - FREEDOM FOR YORKSHIRE!
It's in the job description.
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Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Cheating at Brexit

Yorxit? If only I could believe it would include the whole of Yorkshire, I might be inclined to agree with you. Sadly at the moment, those of us on the East Yorkshire coast just look on while the politicians in Sheffield, Leeds and surrounding areas discuss devolution for Yorkshire like there is nothing east of the A1...

Community Veteran
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Re: Cheating at Brexit


@Anonymous wrote:

An interesting tweet from Guy Verhofstadt:

I do my best to reply to the 1000s of messages I receive each month from British ppl who dont want their EU citizenship taken away from them. Many of you remind me there‘s a passionate proEU movement campaigning for your rights.I guarantee this fight is also a priority for the EP

https://mobile.twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/979331299256172554

 

It it is good to know that the European Parliament is looking out for those like me, even when the U.K. government is not!

 


If the UK went bankrupt over night the EU would drop its fight to keep us like a hot cake. They like our money and that is why they pretend to be your friend.

I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
salmo
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Re: Cheating at Brexit

@7up wrote:Yes it is disrespectful to express a minority view especially when you yourself keep moaning that the referendum was won by the minority of the electorate that actually voted

I can not agree with the above statement re expressing a minority view. I voted to remain and still think the outcome was a big mistake. To say that it is disrespectful to express an honestly held view is wrong. In this case, although the majority was very small, I accept the result but to suggest that anyone is disrespectful for having a different view is not on.

I would hate to live in a society where I had to agree with the majority every time.

Community Veteran
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Re: Cheating at Brexit

By all means, do tell us who you both voted for at the last election and i'll then constantly start moaning about how wrong it was of you to do so. I'm pretty sure you'd get fed up of hearing about it then too.

I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
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Re: Cheating at Brexit


@Anonymous wrote:

An interesting tweet from Guy Verhofstadt:

I do my best to reply to the 1000s of messages I receive each month from British ppl who dont want their EU citizenship taken away from them. Many of you remind me there‘s a passionate proEU movement campaigning for your rights.I guarantee this fight is also a priority for the EP

https://mobile.twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/979331299256172554

 

It it is good to know that the European Parliament is looking out for those like me, even when the U.K. government is not!

 


One could be left with the mistaken impression that everyone in europe is happy with the EU, this is far from the case and there are numerous groups who would be glad for their countries to leave the EU, whilst others who have no wish to leave the EU are unhappy about the state of their countries where changes have not always been for the best.

The increasing cost to business as a result of numerous new rules and regulations seems odd, most countries outside the EU would seek to keep regulations to a minimum.

Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Cheating at Brexit

An interesting line of argument, @gleneagles, but I did not claim that everyone in the EU is happy with all or any of what the EU does. However, I have lived in the EU for decades and am happy with what they have achieved and continue to achieve.

As for the cost of EU regulations, you might like to consider some facts:

The claim: The think-tank Open Europe, quoted by Vote Leave, calculates that £33.3bn is the annual cost of the 100 "most burdensome" EU regulations for the UK economy.
Reality Check verdict: The £33.3bn figure describes the projected annual cost of 100 EU regulations, without taking account of the benefits, estimated by Open Europe to be £58.6bn. There is no guarantee that regulatory costs would be much lower after a Brexit. The EU is involved in setting global standards in many fields, so the UK would still be bound by many rules if it left the EU.

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36398272

 

Community Veteran
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Re: Cheating at Brexit

Sad to say this but you cannot rely on a left wing organization such as the BBC to present equal debate to subjects such as britexit which they are clearly against.