cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Cheating at Brexit

Community Veteran
Posts: 9,566
Thanks: 1,504
Fixes: 11
Registered: ‎02-08-2007

Re: Cheating at Brexit

Depends what you consider as a good sample ?

There are so many variables that can make the result unreliable.

Consider Britexit, how many polls took place, what was the total number of people interviewed ? And what did every poll say, that we would remain in the EU.

Looking back at past general elections some polls have been way out in what they predicted, how many more seats were the conservatives going to gain in the last election ?

Says it all really, they are just a waste of time and money.

Minivanman
Seasoned Hero
Posts: 9,739
Thanks: 3,072
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎04-11-2014

Re: Cheating at Brexit

Like those adverts for shampoo or whatever that tell us 'seventy five out of a hundred people asked.......'

Just junk information.

Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 3,188
Thanks: 5,336
Fixes: 107
Registered: ‎29-09-2011

Re: Cheating at Brexit

In my personal opinion its now irrelevant which way we voted individually. If I was asked to vote again I'd vote Leave regardless of how I voted previously because

 

  • It's my opinion that we should respect the original vote, we didn't have a do over when we decided to join.
  • I feel that the UK is going through a political awakening right now with more people talking about political issues in more spaces than ever before, and that's a good thing. I think overturning this vote would probably infuriate Leave voters and leave both groups feeling like ultimately their vote is worthless if the establishment disagrees with them.
  • Europe has asked the same question twice on a number of occasions when it gets an answer it doesn't like, that's certainly against the spirit of democracy. (Denmark on the Maastricht Treaty, Ireland on the Nice Treaty and Ireland again on the Lisbon Treaty)
  • If remain won in a second referendum do we make it best of 3? if that's a draw do we do Rock, Paper, Scissors?
  • there's an incentive to offer a poorer withdrawal agreement if by doing so it meant that more people are likely to vote Remain on the second referendum rather than take these terms.

 

Again just my personal opinion but I'd certainly be voting Leave if asked now.

 Jono H
 Plusnet Community Manager
Minivanman
Seasoned Hero
Posts: 9,739
Thanks: 3,072
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎04-11-2014

Re: Cheating at Brexit

Exactly, well said. :thumbsup:

Luzern
Seasoned Champion
Posts: 4,379
Thanks: 709
Fixes: 5
Registered: ‎31-07-2007

Re: Cheating at Brexit

@JonoH Vote leave, because that was what the majority voted for last time, eh?  Surely, brexiter or remainer in the 2016 vote, one's new choice needs to consider what is offered against the 2016 wish-list sold us; what now is in the nation's interest.

Of course the vote may even confirm the earlier decision, but It consider your proposed course as a cop out, temely following what others had decided.

No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
Jonpe
Aspiring Hero
Posts: 2,672
Thanks: 926
Fixes: 9
Registered: ‎05-09-2016

Re: Cheating at Brexit

@Anonymous  I did not claim that my 'straw poll' at work was scientific, simply comparing it to "Those still fighting for us to remain in the EU are regularly on TV saying that those who voted Leave didn't know what they were doing, were swayed by this or that lie etc.  No mention of the specific not proving the general when the specific suits them".  None of them asked me anything before, during, or after the referendum, yet they claim to have knowledge about me (and all the other people they haven't asked anything).

@Minivanman  I was referring to the candidates appearing on TV saying things like, "The British electorate is intelligent enough to see that my party's policy on this, that, and the other is better than that of the other parties."

Community Veteran
Posts: 14,691
Thanks: 850
Fixes: 12
Registered: ‎01-08-2007

Re: Cheating at Brexit

No we don't need to re-run the referendum @Anonymous this record is getting a bit old now.

The vote has happened, the people have decided, lets just get on with it and stop moaning about it.

There have been governments I don't like but i haven't gone around demanding another election until I get the result i wanted.

I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,524
Thanks: 1,339
Fixes: 3
Registered: ‎06-11-2014

Re: Cheating at Brexit


@Minivanman wrote:

Like those adverts for shampoo or whatever that tell us 'seventy five out of a hundred people asked.......'

Just junk information.


 

And the fun part about those is, they usually run several different trials with different groups of people, and they pick the best result in their favour to make their product seem good, but as you say, it's junk information as it's not representative of reality... Smiley

 

Ain't going to happen with the Leave vote, we can't keep running votes until one side gets the result they want, otherwise what's the point of voting for anything?

Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 3,188
Thanks: 5,336
Fixes: 107
Registered: ‎29-09-2011

Re: Cheating at Brexit


@Luzern wrote:

Of course the vote may even confirm the earlier decision, but It consider your proposed course as a cop out, temely following what others had decided.

Consider it how you like, it doesn't affect my decisions either way, as I've said it's just my opinion and I',m entitled to mine just the same as you're entitled to yours.

 

Pro tip though - if you're trying to change someones mind try reasoned debate and attempt to build a consensus, insulting their choices probably is not going to be productive. 


 

 Jono H
 Plusnet Community Manager
Champnet
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 1,008
Thanks: 278
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎25-07-2007

Re: Cheating at Brexit

Opinion Polls cost money, look to see who's paying and you'll get a good understanding of the result...

Community Veteran
Posts: 9,566
Thanks: 1,504
Fixes: 11
Registered: ‎02-08-2007

Re: Cheating at Brexit

@Champnet

Very true.

Bit like those drug trials, the company funds the research so owns the result but only publishes the positive ones along with more funding to those who produced the positive results.

There are very few independent trials or research and even then these are often followed by trials showing alternative outcomes.

Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Cheating at Brexit


@Jonpe wrote:

@Anonymous  I did not claim that my 'straw poll' at work was scientific, simply comparing it to "Those still fighting for us to remain in the EU are regularly on TV saying that those who voted Leave didn't know what they were doing, were swayed by this or that lie etc. 


@Jonpe

My apologies, maybe I misunderstood. However, in my defence, when you first mentioned the fact that you didn’t know anyone who had changed their voting intentions here: https://community.plus.net/t5/General-Chat/Cheating-at-Brexit/m-p/1526121#M241949 , you made no mention of anyone on TV saying leave voters didn’t know what they were doing.

Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Cheating at Brexit


@7up wrote:

There have been governments I don't like but i haven't gone around demanding another election until I get the result i wanted.


Well, @7up , as you boast of the fact that you refuse to take part in the democratic election process, if you had gone around ‘demanding another election’, I suspect the best you could expect would be hysterical laughter.

And governments in this country are elected for a maximum of 5 years. I wonder if you would be quite so accepting of the situation if there were not such a time limit on a government you didn’t like, and you then discovered that they had been elected as the result of illegal activities by them during the election process...

Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Cheating at Brexit

@JonoH 

Thanks for such a well reasoned post (#48 ).I think your point that “overturning this vote would probably infuriate Leave voters and leave both groups feeling like ultimately their vote is worthless if the establishment disagrees with them” is hugely important. However, if it is true that Leave’s win could be down to the alleged illegal activity by the leave side in the referendum campaign, then that is certainly likely to lead to those who voted remain feeling that ‘their vote is worthless if the establishment disagrees with them.” And there are an awful lot of people in that category.

Perhaps with all that in mind, and the fact that the result was in any case very close, the most sensible option would be to opt for a very ‘soft’ Brexit. The Norway option, perhaps.

Minivanman
Seasoned Hero
Posts: 9,739
Thanks: 3,072
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎04-11-2014

Re: Cheating at Brexit

Only 365 days to go!

All together now :coolsmiley:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIeC6rYrepE