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Cheating at Brexit

Anonymous
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Re: Cheating at Brexit

@Luzern

Yes, I’m inclined to agree with you. Abandoning Brexit and starting the process again would certainly lead to more acrimony.

The trouble is that continuing the process in the name of ‘the will of the people’ if the result was potentially affected by illegal activity by the pro-leave campaign will also lead to greater acrimony.

Minivanman
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Re: Cheating at Brexit

Damned if we do and damned if we don't? 

Reads like we are agreed at last Thumbs Up

 

 

Anonymous
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Re: Cheating at Brexit

@Minivanman

Yes. Except.... I suspect you would rather we were damned for doing and I would rather we were damned for not doing. Or something like that. Smiley

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Re: Cheating at Brexit


@gleneagles wrote:

It is said that many older people are resistant to change whilst the younger generation want change.

The outcome in this case seems to turn that idea on it's head.

I wonder why ?


Well the older people have been living with this year in year out with many getting more disillusioned with each passing year.

Where with the young the first response was probably - What was the question again?

I may be joking but it's probably close to the truth of it.

Minivanman
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Re: Cheating at Brexit

@billnotben

That's a pretty good summary Thumbs Up

Just to add that, those much older were there at it's birth and embraced it as something new like we were at the time. Full of optimism and now full of despair to see how the years rolled by with only a passing regard to what we in the UK wanted and detestable as she was in many ways, at least Thatcher put us first and put those Brussels bureaucrats in their place - not that it did any good in the end. 

 

Anonymous
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Re: Cheating at Brexit

Minivanman
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Re: Cheating at Brexit

Was it supposed to funny?

Poor attempt by Philomena Cunk if it was, and just more of the same from the Guardian - and is that her real name?

Surely not Funny

Edit: As for 'more of the same', this morning's Guardian online sees six separate anti Brexit articles on its front page alone - six, and that is far from unusual yet one of them has the audacity to refer to Rees-Mogg as a broken record!

How disappointing to see a once fine paper stuck in a groove of it's own making.

Anonymous
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Re: Cheating at Brexit

I was careful to point out that the link was for those with a sense of humour, so I really wasn’t expecting you to follow it... Shocked

 

Minivanman
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Re: Cheating at Brexit

Ah right, so by that logic even those with a sense of humour should laugh at something that is not funny.

Well that makes sense..... or not.

 

RobPN
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Re: Cheating at Brexit

In case anyone who watches her missed the TV announcements, there's a new series of Cunk on Britain starting next week (BBC2 22:00 1/4/18 ), CUNextKuesday Philomena!

Minivanman
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Re: Cheating at Brexit

Must admit to not being familiar with this lady's work which is aimed I guess at a much younger audience and seemingly, more of satirist rather than what we (or at least I) would consider as a comedian. But there you go.

And no, it's not her real name. Roll eyes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Morgan

 

Jonpe
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Re: Cheating at Brexit

The reason older people voted Leave was in many (most?) cases because we've been there, i.e. outside the EU.

In elections candidates traditionally proclaim their faith in the intelligence of the electorate; what's so different in this case?

The link with the constituency is only there if you elect someone from your constituency to represent you.  In these days of professional politicians, they are bussed into safe seats as a reward for party loyalty (or who they know).  I don't suppose Peter Mandelson from Hampstead Garden Suburb even knew where Hartlepool was (except for it being Up North) when it was offered to him.

The current system dates back to when you travelled by horse and cart; nowadays with telephones and email, communicating with your MP is much quicker and does not - in most cases - require face to face contact (which, as we know, carries its own security/safety risks).  We could have a county based PR system; I think some Nordic countries do this, or MPs can be allocated areas to 'look after' which is no different from being allocated a constituency before an election.

 

Jonpe
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Re: Cheating at Brexit


@Anonymous wrote:

@Minivanman 

@Jonpe

"I don't know anyone, Remain or Leave voters, who hadn't decided how to vote in the referendum long before the campaigning started. 

Surely it is a basic tenet of any reasoned argument that the specific does not prove the general. Just because you don’t know anyone who had their voting intention changed by the campaigns does not mean that those people don’t exist.

 


Those still fighting for us to remain in the EU are regularly on TV saying that those who voted Leave didn't know what they were doing, were swayed by this or that lie etc.  No mention of the specific not proving the general when the specific suits them.

Btw, I work with over 500 people which is a fairly large sample, and although it is not 'gender balanced' it contains diversity in terms of sexual preference (incl. one trans person, top that!), race, age etc.

Minivanman
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Re: Cheating at Brexit

"In elections candidates traditionally proclaim their faith in the intelligence of the electorate; what's so different in this case?"

Massive difference.

General elections are often driven by history and culture, just look at how the south west used to vote Liberal, the home counties Conservative and here in Wales, Labour regardless.  It's all shifting now as society changes but there was (and still is here in Wales) an element of "my father and his father before him......." 

As for those 'bussed in politicians', tell me about it. Calling it a disgrace comes nowhere near.

At least the EU vote crossed those party lines, and at least it gave politics a breath of fresh air and has done more than anything in living memory to make people think outside of those cultural restraints. 

Brexit or Bremainer, neither can doubt it's what was needed and for that we can all be grateful. 

 

Anonymous
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Re: Cheating at Brexit


@Jonpe wrote:
Btw, I work with over 500 people which is a fairly large sample

 

0.001% of the electorate, so not a fairly large sample at all. And how representative is that sample? Does it cover a representative population from a variety of geographical areas, social classes, different levels of educational achievement, different occupational groups? And had you really asked them all about their voting intentions before and after the referendum, having first of all carried out a trial to ensure that, as far as possible, your question(s) and questioning technique were not leasing to any bias in their responses?