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Careful out there guys

Community Veteran
Posts: 7,149
Thanks: 51
Fixes: 2
Registered: 30-08-2007

Careful out there guys

Took a call from NatWest Bank security a couple of hours ago. They refused an ATM transaction on my account for approximately £188...that was attempted in Chennai India (local about 300 Rupee's I'm told) today. NWB quite rightly didn't think it was me. Seems my debit card had been cloned, probably via an on-line transaction here. Personally I shred (cross cut) every single receipt or statement of any kind that gets into this house. I watch like a hawk any swiping of my cards by shop assistants and question vociferously anything that doesn't seem right, particularly in petrol garages. I change my pins at irregular intervals.
Take care, it's a cruel world out there.
Experience; is something you gain, just after you needed it most.

When faced with two choices, simply toss a coin. It works not because it settles the question for you. But because in that brief moment while the coin is in the air. You suddenly know what you are hoping for.
19 REPLIES
nadger
Rising Star
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Registered: 13-04-2007

Re: Careful out there guys

Nice to see that NatWest were on the ball Smiley
Just goes to show that however careful one is you're still not totally safe.
Like you I use cross cut shredder. I only withdraw cash inside a bank branch or possibly at supermarket till.
Petrol stations seem to be a source of cloning - been a spate near here where skimming machine was fitted to the outside cash machine. Must admit I don't buy much fuel these days and stick to local supermarket.
alanf
Aspiring Pro
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Registered: 17-10-2007

Re: Careful out there guys

I don't think that they can clone the card from the details used in online transactions. I think that the chip/magnetic strip contains additional information. I could be wrong but I think it more likely that you have used a card reader that has been tampered with or someone has had a sneaky swipe. Been to any Indian restaurants lately?
It beats me why banks cannot put in place a system whereby all overseas and / or internet transactions are refused except when the card-holder has requested otherwise in advance.
pierre_pierre
Grafter
Posts: 19,757
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Careful out there guys

Very few overseas countries use Chip and pin, and it is not very good here either, Someone tried to rip me off with a stupid shop in Hereford accepting an order on a hotmail account with only a mobile phone number, I saw it on my bill before they twigged it, two separate  deliveries and the second was returned empty house, total cost £400, that was before the Police said nothing to do with us, its now down to the Banks.  They confirmed that the delivery address in Southampton did exist and yes the culprit had bunked, I lost nothing got my money back, but the shop lost £250 worth of goods, that will teach them Angry Sad Undecided Cheesy Cry
Moderator
Moderator
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Registered: 14-04-2007

Re: Careful out there guys

Yes it would appear that credit card fraud is now a financial offence rather than a criminal offence.
Unless of course they are ripping off a City financial institution for millions.
Customer and Forum Moderator.
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Community Veteran
Posts: 7,149
Thanks: 51
Fixes: 2
Registered: 30-08-2007

Re: Careful out there guys

Quote from: alanf
It beats me why banks cannot put in place a system whereby all overseas and / or internet transactions are refused except when the card-holder has requested otherwise in advance.

As I mentioned in another post in this forum earlier today I spend a small amount of time in New Zealand. I always call the banks or card providers to advise that my cards will be used there and over what period of time. Otherwise I'd expect them to refuse transactions at any other times outside the UK, they are happy to oblige.
Experience; is something you gain, just after you needed it most.

When faced with two choices, simply toss a coin. It works not because it settles the question for you. But because in that brief moment while the coin is in the air. You suddenly know what you are hoping for.
LadyD
Dabbler
Posts: 21
Registered: 24-02-2008

Re: Careful out there guys

Quote from: alanf
It beats me why banks cannot put in place a system whereby all overseas and / or internet transactions are refused except when the card-holder has requested otherwise in advance.

Having worked for a bank you wouldn't believe the amount of complaints regarding foreign transactions being stopped, very much a case of you cant please everyone  Roll eyes
Community Veteran
Posts: 7,149
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Registered: 30-08-2007

Re: Careful out there guys

Quote from: nadger
Petrol stations seem to be a source of cloning - been a spate near here where skimming machine was fitted to the outside cash machine. Must admit I don't buy much fuel these days and stick to local supermarket.

Yes, A couple of garages in this area (Watford and surrounding) have been prosecuted (or their staff have) for running a cloning scam. One garage has been closed down because of it (I hear) I am not in the least bit racist, but it does seem that almost to a man/woman that the many garages in this area are almost completely staffed by those of Asian extraction; but I'm not saying that is significant at all (phew)
Experience; is something you gain, just after you needed it most.

When faced with two choices, simply toss a coin. It works not because it settles the question for you. But because in that brief moment while the coin is in the air. You suddenly know what you are hoping for.
nadger
Rising Star
Posts: 4,498
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Registered: 13-04-2007

Re: Careful out there guys

Funnily enough the one I was referring to was at a Jet station on A5 near Markyate - just where road from Kensworth meets A5.
Local MP (South Beds)  has been having a go because banks hadn't notified police so by time they heard about it skimming machine had gone.
Community Veteran
Posts: 7,149
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Registered: 30-08-2007

Re: Careful out there guys

nadger, I know the garage you mean (I live in Kings Langley) although I don't use it. I've noticed many times that a card is often swiped twice in garages sometimes through a second reader. When questioned they always seem to have a plausible reason for it. And in fairness, they do it quite openly. maybe it's applied psychology...if you see it being done openly, you don't question it. Once in one of my local garages, I managed to stop the operator doing the non-till (first) swipe, he just shrugged his shoulders and didn't do it. I've not used that garage since. 
Experience; is something you gain, just after you needed it most.

When faced with two choices, simply toss a coin. It works not because it settles the question for you. But because in that brief moment while the coin is in the air. You suddenly know what you are hoping for.
James
Grafter
Posts: 21,036
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: Careful out there guys

You're all putting me to shame.  I'm not even remotely careful with my credit card transactions, although the majority are in either pubs or supermarkets (when not online).
I'll be heading Kings Langley way week after next on the way home to Hemel Hempstead Smiley
pierre_pierre
Grafter
Posts: 19,757
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Careful out there guys

I have been trying to do a search on BBC, but no luck, about two weeks ago in I think Norfolk 700 people in two adjoining villages had their cards cloned, they think they traced it back to a Shell garage, The Garage owner thought something was wrong and tried notifying Plod  Grin
I think it was also on our Look East Inside out TV prog, trouble is again the darling BBC dont let you kow the contents, you have to download the progs and watch it, possibly two or three half hour progs.  Angry Sad Embarrassed Cry Lips are sealed
glyndev
Grafter
Posts: 620
Registered: 31-07-2007

Re: Careful out there guys

BEGIN RANT.
Card fraud is very easy. Most people do not realise that the merchant copy of any transaction carries your card details quite clearly for anyone to see. The only thing not printed is your pin number. So anyone can enter the card number, expiry date and issue number onto a terminal manually, bypass the pin entry stage and deal done. I used to work on a petrol station forecourt and had to do this frequently where customers chip cards had been damaged (still got signature).
Chip collecting is also easily done without the card leaving your sight. There was a case a couple of years ago where someone posed as a an engineer visiting a forecourt to service their till system. He placed a unit in line between the keypad and the till. This read ALL card details of every transaction for a week before he went back to retrieve the unit. No one was any the wiser until card holders noticed additional transactions on their statement.
A big stumbling point is that the UK banks decided to go for the cheaper UN-encrypted chip system and save money.
With modern technology there is no reason for 90% of the card fraud that there is. All the banks have your signature stored digitally. As well as having you enter your pin why not also have you sign on a digital tablet then the signature image be transmitted to the bank and compared with the sig on their computer.
Another is the use of mobile phones as a secondary avenue of verification for each transaction. So many possibilities with todays technology.
END RANT
VileReynard
Seasoned Pro
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Registered: 01-09-2007

Re: Careful out there guys

Quote
A corrupt bank employee can discover your debit card pin number after just 15 attempts, according to a study by computer scientists in Cambridge.

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2798029.stm

pierre_pierre
Grafter
Posts: 19,757
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Careful out there guys

I am surprised that nobody recommended changing the pin number, it is easy to do and could be changed every time you visited the machine if you liked, with my bank group it is on the machine menu