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Care costs injustice.

Minivanman
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Care costs injustice.

Care costs could be funded by taxpayer to stop 'injustice' of elderly selling homes.

Well it's about time, and lets hope it happens before I have to - not that I would ever let it.

Source 

 


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33 REPLIES 33
gleneagles
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Re: Care costs injustice.

We hear plenty of promises but.....

Where will the money come from.....The Tax payer.....

However a lot of money is going to have to come from the Tax Payer just to cover what corvid has cost us...not sure how that will work out with less people working or working in low paid jobs.....

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Minivanman
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Re: Care costs injustice.

That's very true, but for now maybe it's enough to recognise the intent and the unfairness and hope that in time all else will follow. 

Y'never know. 


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Mayfly
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Re: Care costs injustice.

I don't have a problem paying for care, if it's needed it's needed, but as the NHS was always touted 'from cradle to grave' and they have moved the goal posts and because self funders pay twice (on average) what local authorities pay for residents to make up the shortfall, it is something I feel strongly about. It should be fair for all, self funders should pay the same rates not be used as cash cows.

 

Sorry MVM you've set me off on one 🤣

Marksfish
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Re: Care costs injustice.

Probably not what you want to read, but here goes, my tuppence worth.

When I was younger, elderly relatives moved in with younger relatives (the granny annexe) and there was no need for care homes as such. When the end came, the proceeds from their life were shared amongst those that helped them out (usually, unless someone spiteful managed to wangle their way). As the years have progressed, it has become more popular for elderly residents to be put into residential homes and care homes. Is this because people are too busy to look after elderly family themselves now, or because they see it as something for someone else to do? I don't know, I am lucky enough not to have made that decision yet. My Father however made that decision for his step mum, and conceded that because she did not have a health requirement, nor did he want to look after her, it would come out of any inheritance. The NHS was set up for medical care, not residential care, so yes, you do get medical care from cradle to grave, but not to live off it. That said, the cost of care is astronomical and it is said, it would be cheaper to send someone on a permanent cruise, as it would be cheaper!

That said, it does get my goat that someone who may have chosen not to work during their lifetime would be able to live side by side free of charge and paid for by the tax payer!!

Minivanman
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Re: Care costs injustice.

One of the prime objectives of the Beveridge report was to remove once and for all the hated household means tests that had characterised public relief in Britain during the Slump years of the 1930s, and whilst 'cradle to the grave' can be interpreted in various ways, the prime responsibilty of the state should be to care for it's citizens throughout their lives until death, and not throughout their lives... but a few years short.

Selling your home to pay for end of life care is just that. It's a household means test. 

Cradle to the grave, that was the understanding and that was what 40's boomers such as myself have always understood it to be and that like it or not governments Left or Right is what we paid for. It was 'The New Jerusalem' my fathers generation were promised and it is that, albeit after that little stutter until1948, which was provided when they came home after the war.

It's a can that has been not only kicked down the road but up in the air as well and I really do take your points @Marksfish, but hopefully as said the injustice of having to sell your home (by the way, home, not a million dollar mansion as I get that bit) will come to an end - although I'd not bet on it, and not in my lifetime. 

Onwards and upwards eh. 🙂

 

 


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gleneagles
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Re: Care costs injustice.

It’s worth noting that the number of care homes has increased considerably over the years, but these numbers mainly increased as the health service gradually reduced beds for elderly people who had conditions that could not be cured such as dementia.

Most people will remember that years ago following a operation you could go to a convalescent hospital for a week or two, these hospitals no longer exist, hospitals now need to get patients in and out as quickly as is safely possible, with local authorities having the responsibility of finding care home places for those who cannot go private, they do this by offering to pay for a set number of beds at a much lower cost, care home providers accept these deals as it guarantees a set sum of money whereas    private patients who pay more can leave at short notice or if they die that bed could be empty for some weeks, it is true however that private patients do subsidise many of these care homes.

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gleneagles
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Re: Care costs injustice.

Say you own your own house, then you would think it was possible to sell it for whatever price you decide or even give it away to a relative but should you do that and go into a care home or nursing home the local authority can still claim the money from the property up to 7 years later.

So imagine someone owning a house going into care but has one or more relatives living with them, what happens then can the local authority move them out so they can sell the house...

Must admit I do not know the answer...

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Minivanman
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Re: Care costs injustice.

What really gets me is that the cost of a care home can easily and in no time at all wipe out the value of that house you have worked for all your life. Finally mortgage free and with plans to leave it your kids (and Gods know they need all the help they can get these days) and like a rat up a drainpipe, if you find yourself in need of care then whoosh, it's gone almost in instant swallowed up by those outrageous care costs.

Fortunately and times change I know, but only something like five percent of the elderly go into long term care and of those not all are self funding.

Ten years back and when we bought our place, the Mrs and self made out new wills under the joint and several arrangement which means in effect that if one us pops our clogs, then by right, half of the house goes to the children. What this means in effect is that the 'authority' cannot sell half a house and cannot sell the other half because the remaining partner will be living there. Rights remain with the occupier/other half owner so the children could not force a sale.

But back to the beginning of this topic and where hopefully none of the above will be an issue in the future becuase as it stand it is an injustice especially for those who are not rolling in dosh who are hardly going to argue the case anyway. 

 

  

 


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gleneagles
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Re: Care costs injustice.

@Minivanman 

Must admit it’s a topic I know little about but if one of you required private care then the authority could put a charge on the house for half it value, true they could not move you out but when you eventually depart this world they no doubt have some way of getting the money, ok your children own half the house but the debt remains and I suspect, but do not know, they have some way of getting that money....

Sadly my own mother went into a rest home and then a nursing home with the local authority taking her house as payment,

Having to deal with this was very upsetting at the time and even more so as I was married and skint at the time and got virtually nothing so this topic is quite personal for me.

I fully agree it is something that needs changing but it’s been going on for years.....

My mother worked hard for what she had and I often wondered was it really worth working hard as some who choose not to work or spend every penny were wiser....

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Minivanman
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Re: Care costs injustice.

@gleneagles 

Really sorry to hear that, and it does make me so angry when that sort of thing happens.

My old Dad had to go into nursing care and it cost about £1000 a week but his pension from his job as a Social Worker (ironically) plus his state pension was more than enough to cover it. His dementia and all that went with it was pretty bad so there really was no other option but had he we to sell the family house before he eventually passed we'd have been in a right pickle as nobody had power of attorney. We loved him to bits but crikey, he was a real cantankerous so-and-so! 

Hopefully we've done enough early enough to secure our home, and hopefully neither of us will need to go into care - in fact we've both said we ain't going to let that happen.   

 

 


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Jonpe
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Re: Care costs injustice.

Crikey, I didn't know social workers got such generous pensions!

Minivanman
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Re: Care costs injustice.

@Jonpe 

Neither did we, but my mother was also a social worker and had died a few short years earlier so her pension might have been included? But yes, it was a fair bet for what it was worth - which was nothing after having to pay out as much as he did. 

The cost of health care really was scandalous and as @Marksfish said, it would have been cheaper to go on a cruise. 


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TeeGee
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Re: Care costs injustice.

This is my specialised subject. There is of course a valid argument for looking after elderly relatives in their own homes but it falls down badly when they lose both physical and mental capacity.

The people who really suffer are the ones who have a modest property and little financial advice to help then keep at least some of it.  A small £250k house can disappear easily in four years so at least split ownership 50/50 between husband and wife for starters.

My mother in law had a serious brain haemhorrage and has been clueless in a care home for ten years. This is likely to clock up over a million pounds in her lifetime but has not cost a penny. A immediate care needs annuity pays the difference between the fee and her pension and escalates at 5% pa forever. Yes that cost money and you can't get such a good deal today but it does save IHT too! 

I have closely followed the Health and Social Care Select Committee meetings and their agreement as to why the proposed fee cap was never implemented is simple - the government have not the slightest intention of implementing it. The words of Sir Andrew Dilnot who proposed the idea in the first place.

It may only affect a small percentage but it is a sort of reverse lottery "win".  You pay them hundreds of thousands!

 

 

Minivanman
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Re: Care costs injustice.

I doubt if our small place is worth more the £150k being where it is so not hard to imagine how long that would last if there were even the most basic long term care was needed. And there's the rub, as for me it would either be a nice litte lump sum for the kids, or disappear faster than a fart on the front at Fleetwood.


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