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Can this be true?

Bob_Milton
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Registered: 31-07-2007

Can this be true?

Any views on this?
Should we be concerned?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/7208520.stm
33 REPLIES
Denzil
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Re: Can this be true?

Need we be concerned? I don't think so. If we are looking for factual information we need to be careful, not concerned, and apply some intelligence, knowledge and common sense to what we are reading.
Yes, there is a lot of rubbish on the web, but there is also quite a lot of rubbish published in books, newspapers, and even scientific journals. 
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Re: Can this be true?

Quote from: Denzil
Need we be concerned? I don't think so.

I agree.
Unless the source of the information a person is seeking is authoritative, care must be exercised in the subsequent use of that information.
Accepted there are conflicting points of view in many walks of life, not least the scientific world but a recognised 'expert' opinion has to take precedence over the 'enthusiastic amateur'.
Most people are capable of making that distinction
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Denzil
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Re: Can this be true?

Quote from: Strat
... but a recognised 'expert' opinion has to take precedence over the 'enthusiastic amateur'.

In almost all cases, yes, but there are exceptions. I am a trustee of a national medical charity in a field where the official HPA 'expert'  promotes an opinion that is not substantiated by the majority of good evidence. The expert is believed by most doctors and patients because they lack the time, ability or inclination to check the evidence.
Quote
Most people are capable of making that distinction

Not sure about that one, particularly on scientific subjects!
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Re: Can this be true?

The trouble with many scientific 'facts' is that they differ depending on which decade you are in. Remember the Earth used to be flat.
We are also well aware of medical science constantly telling us what we should or shouldn't eat, again with variances and contradictions over time.
I've lost count of the number of different ways the Universe came into existence....I'm beginning to think it actually didn't and we are not really here at all. Wink
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Re: Can this be true?

Mostly agree with much of what has been said here by Strat and Denzil. But also agree about care needed with scientific subjects. Trouble is Joe Bloggs tends to take the word of anybody with letters after his name as gospel truth. The divided opinion on the current global warming issue is a case in point. It sometimes takes an inquiring (or skeptical) mind to look behind the reams of mis-quotes and propaganda behind this particular gem, and that somewhere, sometime an awful lot of people are making a huge amount of money out of misleading us, often by people with long strings of letters after their names...who really should know better.
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Re: Can this be true?

I am inclined to agree, The information given to me regarding the June floods, (and those that come after) by the, so called, environment minister, is a case in point....
The environment department acknowledges that the floods were caused by exceptional rain levels.... (oh really ?) This was a response to my query regarding the non continuance of the practice of dredging rivers, causing the "floor level" of the rivers to silt up, thereby the same amount of water flow, requires that water to move out towards the sides of the rivers, i.e. overflowing the banks.  The environment department is spending millions of our money to make available "flood defences", or mobile river banks...... this will hopefully contain the "extra" rainfall..... Erm.... isn`t that the same thing as making the rivers deeperHuh?Huh
So yes the (amount) letters after a persons name do tend to make the recipient of the information imparted think it must be right..... some of the most used letters in this case spell out two words    G    o    v    e  r  n  m  e  n  t    M  i  n  i  s  t  e  r  .....
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Re: Can this be true?

Yes, and apparently, those who have block-paved their front gardens for car parking are somehow responsible for the flooding that wasn't caused by non-dredging of rivers...but that's another story of course.
As a one time very amateur astronomer, one of the first things you learn is that our Sun is a perfectly ordinary not particularly hot star. That is also mildly unstable with a cycle of approximately 11 years between solar maximum (hottest) and solar minimum (coolest) this has been going on for millions of years before homo sapiens were a twinkle in natures eye. Just why man (or some anyway) can be arrogant enough to believe that man can somehow interfere with this cycle is beyond me sometimes, almost as if there is a notion that time and therefore everything that has happened on Earth started when Tony Blair took office.
This is not the first time for an atmospheric anomaly, and certainly won't be the last...remember the El-Nino of a few years ago, and the doom mongers who predicted the changing oceans would change life as we know it on Earth, where are they now? counting their millions they made from it.
No, the human race suffers with very short memories, if it didn't happen yesterday, it's never happened before, the wonderful phrase "before records began" just what percentage of time do they think these "records" represent on the scale of things.
Right, I'll get off my favorite hobby horse now!! 
Experience; is something you gain, just after you needed it most.

When faced with two choices, simply toss a coin. It works not because it settles the question for you. But because in that brief moment while the coin is in the air. You suddenly know what you are hoping for.
Denzil
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Re: Can this be true?

Quote from: petlew
Just why man (or some anyway) can be arrogant enough to believe that man can somehow interfere with this cycle is beyond me sometimes,   

Veering off topic a little here, but this is the kind of thing where we do need to listen to the experts, because global warming is an enormously complex issue. The majority of experts now agree that we are contributing significantly to global warming. The argument is now about what we should do about it.
I don't think anybody has ever suggested we are interfering with the sun. Models of climate change are getting more sophisticated all the time, and account for all the natural phenomena that anyone can think of, including solar cycles. They all show that man's activity is making a difference. 
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Re: Can this be true?

The rest of the species that inhabit this planet adapt to their environment in order to survive.
'Man' is the only animal that adapts the environment to suite him/her.
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James
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Re: Can this be true?

There's also the added argument that glacials and interglacials have been present throughout the history of the planet.  This also includes mini iceages (ala ~1850).  There are also various natural causes such as the wobble of the Earth (I think there were something like 110,000, 65,000 and 25,000 year cycles) which also affect the climate variations.
Of course I'm not saying that man hasn't had an impact, of course he has, but we also have to consider that global climate fluctuations have always occurred.
It's been a long time since my Geography degree Sad
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In a billion years none of this will matter.
We will be Red Giant fodder.
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pierre_pierre
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Re: Can this be true?

your lucky, when I went to skule, they didn't know about tectronic plates.
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Re: Can this be true?

Oh I thought it was Ok to go off topic in "general chit chat"
But in the politest possible way, I have to disagree with you. Not all of the experts agree that we are contributing significantly to global warming, a significant number believe that what is going on has happened before, will happen again, and the efforts of man are quite incapable of influencing this process at all. What we see and hear is a concerted and one-sided propaganda exercise, that effectively silences the other side of the arguments.
Did you ever see the Channel 4 prog "The Great Global Warming Swindle" very interesting. One of the very few opposing the current fad for all things global warming. I still have this program recorded on my HDD DVD recorder, if you'd like to see it I should be able to transfer it to DVD, we can come to an arrangement...PM me.
Experience; is something you gain, just after you needed it most.

When faced with two choices, simply toss a coin. It works not because it settles the question for you. But because in that brief moment while the coin is in the air. You suddenly know what you are hoping for.
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Re: Can this be true?

Quote from: pierre_pierre
your lucky, when I went to skule, they didn't know about tectronic plates.

My school didn't know about dinner plates Cry
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