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Byteback IT Solutions pull out of Workfare

TORPC
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Byteback IT Solutions pull out of Workfare

[quote= http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2014/07/26/criticising-government-policy-online-is-unacceptable-intimidation-according-to-treasury/]

The comments came after news broke that Bristol IT company Byteback had pulled out of workfare a week after being visited by George Osborne to sing the praises of the scheme.  Hundreds of people had contacted Byteback on social media expressing dismay at their involvement in forced work after some fierce questioning from @andygale on twitter caused them to refer to their unpaid workers as ‘employees of the state’.
Shortly after this bombardment, and in a huge embarrassment for Osborne, Byteback apologised for their involvement in his grubby scheme and promised “no more involvement ever with workfare”
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Re: Byteback IT Solutions pull out of Workfare

Good!
I cannot understand how the government think forcing the most vulnerable into slavery is a good thing. They would not be happy to do it themselves if they were in the same vulnerable positions.
If they really want to make a difference to this country and get it back on its feet, they need to stop being so draconian and down on their own people and find REAL ways to help people who are in a mess and help others who want to work to get further ahead. Instead they choose to bully people who through no fault of their own are in a mess.
This state bullying must STOP!
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Re: Byteback IT Solutions pull out of Workfare

I don't really get the attitude of the people opposing schemes like this. What about the people with jobs, not necessarily doing their dream job that they would love to do, who have to do their job, if they want to keep their job and get paid?
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Re: Byteback IT Solutions pull out of Workfare

So it's ok to bully companies who aren't doing anything wrong (by the letter of the law) but it's wrong for the government to allegedly bully?
Working for your benefits seems fair to me
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nanotm
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Re: Byteback IT Solutions pull out of Workfare

workfare can be a good thing and where its done through charity group shops it provide the charity group with people who have nothing better to do all day and it prevents those who are used to work from stagnating and suffering from depression.
the fact that companies are using workfare as a form of free employment to lower there operating margins isn't so good as its artificially removing the burden of staff costs whilst allowing them to expand and unfairly provides state sponsorship support to certain companies in a market sector whilst penalising others for not doing the same .....
community based work schemes (manual labour) are also good ideas as it brings lots of similar people together and gives them something to do other than a bi weekly trip to the office and 13 days sat on there backside.... sure some people are proactive but the majority aren't
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
TORPC
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Re: Byteback IT Solutions pull out of Workfare

Quote from: dvorak
<snip>
Working for your benefits seems fair to me

I tend to agree, if & only if it is done fairly, & for the able bodied & are able to do such tasks
Not the disabled that are forced to some extent
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Re: Byteback IT Solutions pull out of Workfare

In the case of disabled - if they are physically and mentally able to do the task it may or perhaps could be the first step to actually getting a permanent job as they can show that they have the ability and the experience necessary
TORPC
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Re: Byteback IT Solutions pull out of Workfare

Yea that is another way of looking at it
However the jobs need to be available for them to be suitably placed
ATM from what has been reported in the news etc, is a fine example of it not being thought out properly, just like the Universal Job Match website that cost £20Million to an American firm that was paid as a competitor to them, & now they are on about scrapping it when it comes up for review.
My daughter only goes on their to upload the jobs she has applied for on other sites like reed.co.uk etc, just to keep her advisor sweet & then her advisor still moans
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Re: Byteback IT Solutions pull out of Workfare

Quote from: dvorak
So it's ok to bully companies who aren't doing anything wrong (by the letter of the law) but it's wrong for the government to allegedly bully?
Working for your benefits seems fair to me

But this is the very problem - many people are NOT WELL enough to work. Why should they then be punished for having ill health and told to go to work for less than the legal minimum wage? It is in effect, slavery. The company get FREE labour while making a profit out of those who are ill and having their lives made a misery for it.
Sure, if you've been a smoker, drug abuser, boozer all your life and have brought it on yourself then to a point I can agree but there are others who cannot be held accountable for the state of their health.
Companies run for profit. By using free labour from the most vulnerable to society, yes dvorak they ARE doing wrong.
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nanotm
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Re: Byteback IT Solutions pull out of Workfare

plenty of disabled people need nothing more than a little confidence to be able to undertake tasks for which they are physically capable without endangering or overtaxing their body, some need help in learning how to do so after becoming disabled and others are just not suitable for work, most people are capable of some form of work but a tiny minority aren't.
providing targeted employment through charitable groups or community projects should be the scope of workfare and not private companies taking advantage of out of work people to save costs!
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
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Re: Byteback IT Solutions pull out of Workfare

Quote from: nanotm
providing targeted employment through charitable groups or community projects should be the scope of workfare and not private companies taking advantage of out of work people to save costs!

For once we agree upon something!
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TORPC
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Re: Byteback IT Solutions pull out of Workfare

+1
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Re: Byteback IT Solutions pull out of Workfare

I don't think it's particularly evil for companies to take part in the scheme, if unemployed people working for their benefits actually get something out of it, experience, skills, if nothing else a reference and something to put on a CV rather than just a big stretch of unemployment. Nor do I think there is anything fundamentally evil or wrong with companies trying to make a profit.
Aren't some charity shops mostly staffed by volunteers working for no pay anyway?
nanotm
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Re: Byteback IT Solutions pull out of Workfare

the problem is those companies working as a private for profit enterprise should be hiring people to the jobs not getting free labour to fund there enterprises,
charity groups and community projects are always non profit organisations so many of there workforce are there doing things for the greater good, often collecting benefits and this has been the case for many people for years
forcing those on JSA or in ESA work groups to do a few hours of work in such charity organisations benefits the wider community but crucially doesn't amount to free labour for a profit making organisation,
for instance if I opened a factory and employed 10 people to build left handed widgets which sell cheaply but don't make me much profit I could apply to workfare and triple my workforce for no additional cost, trebling my output and effectively giving me 10x the profit margin all because I don't have to pay the wages for those extra 20 staff members, I can re invest half of that profit in expansion so I can take more workfare people and again grow my profits, once I have expanded my production to the point that the market gets saturated I can scale back my staff levels without incurring any costs because there nearly all workfare and telling the co-ordinator I need half the usual number doesn't cost me a penny ... but my pockets have grown deep and fat very quickly as my free labour has allowed me an unfair advantage and I've forced my competition out of the market by cutting the price to the bones before ramping it up once there all gone, and best of all I saved hundreds of million on wages and ni payments and avoided any workplace pension liabilities despite having some of the same free labour for the last 5 years .....
a completely unfair advantage, and also completely unfair on the workers as there doing something that would otherwise have generated employment, the more companies use such schemes then the less jobs there are to go round, then the more there are on workfare......
its not the idea of working to some degree for your benefits that abhorrent only the allowance of profit making companies to use the scheme to cut operating costs and cheat people out of a job opportunity
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
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Re: Byteback IT Solutions pull out of Workfare

Can't that unfair advantage and driving all the competitors out of business problem be avoided by distributing the workfare participants evenly across all companies rather than sending them all to one?
What about say a local second hand bookshop going out of business because they can't compete with the charity bookshop, which doesn't pay most of its staff, and gets its stock as free donations? You could end up with fewer job opportunities because there's nothing left besides charity shops. I expect there are computer recycling charities. Of course lots of charities do pay a lot of their staff, but then perhaps the charities wouldn't need to pay so many people if they got workfare people instead. Which is great for the charity good cause, but less good for employment prospects.