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Bullying on the forum.

Devonian
Grafter
Posts: 1,854
Registered: 01-05-2011

Bullying on the forum.

For weeks and weeks myself, and a couple of other members have been victims of certain unnamed members poisonous words and behaviour, where they follow us from thread to thread to post comments, trying to get a rise out of us.
I have reported these people to the moderators, who have quite clearly taken their sides.
I am constantly being threatened by the mods, saying they will ban me if I don't fall into line.
What is my crime?
Daring to hold my own views and daring to call out certain people on their disgusting behaviour.
I have contacted the mods and reported certain posts over and over... yet I don't get a single reply.
1 of the 'special' members reports a post of mine, and it triggers the rath of the mods.
I am constantly labelled awful names on the open forum, and that is acceptable, and the threads are not removed despite my asking, and the offender is allowed to post with impunity.
I make a post about a news article, in a civil manner, and it is deleted by a mod for no reason.
A few days ago myself and a couple of others who seem to be a target of the 'special members' were given a 48hour ban FOR NO REASON only to have the ban lifted after a couple of hours with no explanation.
The mods obviously think this is funny.
It is not.  It is bullying.
I am being picked on because I am younger than some members and don't follow their rose tinted views on the world.
It really is that simple.
The behaviour of some members on this forum and 2 MODERATORS is disgraceful.
You behave like school kids yet you are pensioners!
Before anybody suggests I keep my issues private... I have contacted the mods several times only to be ignored.
My last contact was 2 days ago asking why I was banned and unbanned, and asking who else received the ban at the same time, as the official reason given was 'all members arguing were given a 48hour ban'
Not quite true that was it un-named mod?

Editted following advice re naming people
52 REPLIES
snozboz
Grafter
Posts: 384
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Registered: 27-07-2007

Re: Bullying on the forum.

Have you tried PMing a senior member of Plusnet staff e.g. JessBooth or Chris?
I think you did a good job of explaining your concerns without getting nasty.  There does seem to be something going on.  Though the last line mentioning someone by name may be a bit too personal when you are wanting the issues addressed without personal argument.
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,380
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Registered: 18-01-2013

Re: Bullying on the forum.

Historically you have been involved/participated in a lot of the "political" and "race" threads (as have others) and I suspect the Moderators tolerance levels for potentially troublesome posts have been stretched a little.
At a guess, they are giving less leeway to those who have caused issues on the forum before to try and prevent things blowing up again.
A couple of months ago when you couldn't move for political / race threads, this forum was a very stressful place to hang out. It has since calmed down and is pretty chilled again and I suspect they are trying to keep it this way.
We mustn't lose sight that primarily this is a support forum for customers.
Community Veteran
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Re: Bullying on the forum.

Quote from: DomS
Historically you have been involved/participated in

But that does not make him guilty of anything. Protesters take part in protests but that does not mean that they are guilty and jailed.
Quote from: DomS
At a guess, they are giving less leeway to those who have caused issues

Again, has Devonian directly been accused of anything nasty? Has he been directly been found at fault? He expressed his views and others (from a certain clique) have attacked him for it and then started giving him greif. TORPC has also had this happen as has PluscomUK for his DM postings and various other things.
Quote from: DomS
We mustn't lose sight that primarily this is a support forum for customers.

Yes but we have a Chit chat forum for just that - chit chat. Personally Devonians comments about bullying of new members does ring true. I've endured it here on this forum and again the mods would side with those who were causing me offence. That has since worn off over the years and things between me and them are diplomatic however this should not still be going on. The people who are attacking new members need dealing with.
Quote from: Devonian
I am being picked on because I am younger than some members and don't follow their rose tinted views on the world.
It really is that simple.

You are not the only one with this opinion, others have said similar to me via other methods of communication many times.
There is an unofficial policy on this forum that appears to mean that the younger generations views and opinions are not as welcome as those of the older generations who think life is good because it treated their generations well.
Quote from: DomS
My last contact was 2 days ago asking why I was banned and unbanned, and asking who else received the ban

I know who one other person is (they emailed me) however i am not going to mention who out of respect for them.
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
Devonian
Grafter
Posts: 1,854
Registered: 01-05-2011

Re: Bullying on the forum.

Of course Dom and I agree.

The problem is though, I am happy to debate with people on subjects they don't agree with me on, but after a few posts, they are unable to carry on in a civil manner, they then make personal attacks and slanderous comments.
When these comments are reported, they are ignored completely.
The members then carry on their silly vendetta, and yes, admittedly I bite back.
I am then censored/threatened by the mods, and these other members carry on with impunity, like they are above the rules we all agree to abide by.
And then adding to that, is the very childish and stupid ban I was given a few days ago, I was told it was to last for 48hours.. and a very limp reason was given.  A few hours later the ban was lifted and I was told another pathetically stupid reason.
It is obviously a case of 'the face doesn't fit' so lets hound him out.
Well it wont work.
I am a paying customer, and I don't care if 2 or 3 members, who think they are oh so superior, don't like me being around.
I have always believed in everybody being equal, and this forum is no exception to that.
There are several members who I PM with, and get on very well with, and there are several others that have gone out of their way to help me resolve issues with my broadband which I am very grateful to,  it's just a shame there's a few 'holier than thou' idiots spoiling the boards.
Devonian
Grafter
Posts: 1,854
Registered: 01-05-2011

Re: Bullying on the forum.

@7UP  This forum needs a like button.  Wink
Community Veteran
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Re: Bullying on the forum.

If you want some real examples of bullying, we just need to remember RichAllen - the guy has Aspergers but this wasn't taken into consideration by certain members who used to go on the wind up.
My stepson has ADHD and used to get wound up very quickly and once in this state was almost impossible to control. We would have to limit his exposure to certain environments and nip things in the bud before they escalated. It often feels the same way on this forum - one person sows the seed and various others "bite". Before long things get out of control and the atmosphere descends into a sludgy mist .....
The original poster may or may not have posted to antagonise but often it appears that they are attempting to stir up trouble even when they aren't. You need to bear in mind that on a forum / email / texts, intent of a post or message can easily be misinterpreted and if this is the case by the Moderators (who do a grand job in my opinion) then some leeway should also be given to them too.
I had a post removed by a Moderator a while ago while trying to explain the actions of another member. It was seen by the Moderator as potentially slanderous or demeaning against the member but once explained, the Moderator could totally see why I had posted it. It was describing a medical condition that the member had been open on the forums about before but hadn't been clocked by the Moderators as potentially a cause of his posting issues / forum problems.
As above, the biggest problem is often the regulars on here don't know when to quit, to turn the other cheek or to take a post or message with the original intent rather than taking it the wrong way. In this case, closing the post or removing it nips it in the bud and saves a lot of Moderator time cleaning up afterwards.
On a forum I moderate, we had a particularly argumentative and sometimes offensive member who would quite happily spend half the day arguing with whichever Moderator he was having issues with at that time. It took hours of everyone's time up and we lost a couple of good Moderators who really couldn't be bothered with it any more. I'm sure the guys on here would rather pop on every couple of hours and make sure everything is running smoothly than follow the same members over and over again with a shovel catching the "fallout" that occurs when it kicks off.
Maybe if they got paid for their efforts then it would be another matter but they are giving up their own free time to help out here  Cool
Community Veteran
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Re: Bullying on the forum.

Thanks guys...a very interesting and week argued post.
Certainly good for thought here.  I must admit, I have to agree with some points on here. Others I can offer no opinion as I haven't had the same experiences.
Community Gaffer
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Re: Bullying on the forum.

Quote from: DomS
On a forum I moderate, we had a particularly argumentative and sometimes offensive member who would quite happily spend half the day arguing with whichever Moderator he was having issues with at that time. It took hours of everyone's time up and we lost a couple of good Moderators who really couldn't be bothered with it any more. I'm sure the guys on here would rather pop on every couple of hours and make sure everything is running smoothly than follow the same members over and over again with a shovel catching the "fallout" that occurs when it kicks off.

This.
The mods do an admirable job (how many here would give up their free time to do it?), and deserve a modicum of respect for their troubles.
I can only imagine how trying the task in hand must have been of late.
I think it's important that we don't lose sight of the fact that this is primarily a support forum for feedback and discussion surrounding Plusnet's products and services. Whilst I recognise the merit in Chit Chat for helping build a healthy community, let's be honest, in places it's been anything but that recently.
It's my personal opinion (not necessarily that of Plusnet's), that this is not the place to discuss certain topics and beliefs with the voracity I've seen in places. There are plenty of other channels for people to voice/debate certain opinions and IMO our forums aren't one of them.
The mods have more patience than me. I'd have probably switched this board off in it's entirety by now.
Just an idea, but how about we all make an effort to play nicely from hereonin and prevent that from happening Wink

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Products Team
If I've been helpful then please give thanks ⤵

TORPC
Grafter
Posts: 5,163
Registered: 08-12-2013

Re: Bullying on the forum.

Hi Bob
Just a thought
That when certain members keep start / stopping with their name calling / snide remarks, with impunity, resulting then having to be reported on several occasions as had been mentioned, should be dealt with acorrdingly.
As another member said, on a thread that was recently removed, it was titled @OJ
Quote from: purleigh
Quote from: TORPC
My youngest daughter seen the snide remarks that were made earlier, in a certain thread & I do not want her picking up the negativity

I've change my mind,  you need to be banned and sterilized !  Shocked

(Note to 'Oldjim' - this is not a personal attack, just expressing my own thoughts !)

Then something should be done in relation to the offending member(s), especially when they try to deny a personal attack
And in the same removed thread a member made reference to defending those the continue to abuse the rules with impunity with a statment similar to
Quote
They play the game of staying just inside the rules

How is the continuation of stop starting / name calling / blaspheming / snideness, staying within the rules ?Huh
May I take this time remind some of a couple of rules
[quote= http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,218.0.html#post_attack]Personal attacks
These are usually caused by discussions turning into serious arguments as mentioned above. Please think before posting anything that would be defined as this sort of attack. For example "Username is an idiot" Personal attacks, including those in personal forum messages or emails, are not welcome on these forums and will be dealt with firmly. As the moderators do not have access to personal forum messages or emails any action would only be in response to a specific complaint by the recipient.
[quote= http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,218.0.html#post_troll]Trolling
A troll is a person who posts inflammatory messages, to disrupt the discussion or to upset its participants. The word, or its derivative, "trolling", is also used to describe such messages or the act of posting them. This behaviour will not be tolerated.
I agree that where some has had a threat of being banned for speaking out about those that constantly offend, is not the right course of action , however I agree that action should be taken on those that are offenders / repeat offenders,
No doubt there will be some that will disagree, however let me bring to your attention about an age old phrase
Quote
It only takes one rotten apple to sour the barrel.
, in this case it is very sadly more than one rotten apple, as 7up / DomS / Devonian has so aptly stated in this thread
When it was brought to my attention, that one member in particular (won't name as to protect the innocent, from that member being starting on him again)
I had a look & clearly seen that that member that was picking / bullying another member is still allowed to post a couple of years later & does not ever to have appeared to have had a ban in the interim & is still allowed to get away with bullying / name calling etc
Therefore something has to be clearly sorted in the respect of getting this forum on track with NO rotten apples
Some of the offending minority, likes to try & take the heat off of them by bringing up, threads that were dealt with months ago, rather than keeping focus on the most recent & present situations caused by themselves.
As mentioned in another thread
"The ones that are doing it, may not know they are doing it"
However Myself & no doubt others are seeing an influx of their stop start attitude, which makes it seem as though they do know exactly what they are doing
After all
What are the rules there for, since not all members are adhering to them, & or they are not being enforced in the correct manner ?Huh
Community Gaffer
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Re: Bullying on the forum.

Quote from: TORPC
No doubt there will be some that will disagree, however let me bring to your attention about an age old phrase
Quote
It only takes one rotten apple to sour the barrel.
, in this case it is very sadly more than one rotten apple, as 7up / DomS / Devonian has so aptly stated in this thread

I'm sure there's an adage about talking politics with strangers too? Wink
Just so I'm clear, I've not popped my head above the parapet to act as adjudicator here. Neither will I be justifying any punishments bestowed by the mods. The way I see it, various people are making it very difficult for the mods to remain objective, it's as simple as that.
If it were down to me, quite a few long term bans would have been handed out by now, and I would have flatly refused to enter into any debate about the whys and wherefores (perhaps that's why I'm not a mod!). Heavy handed perhaps, but at least people would have been given some time to reflect and tranquillity restored to this board for everybody else :mand: Wink
I don't care what's happened in the past, who said what when, who's baiting, sniping, in the right, in the wrong or otherwise. It just needs to stop! People need to lay their grievances to one side, forget about what's happened, start afresh and steer clear of topics that will inevitably incite.
If this can't be done I only really see two outcomes. The retiring of this board, or packing orders for a number of people who on the most part can be very helpful members of the Community. Personally I don't want to see either of these things happen.

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Products Team
If I've been helpful then please give thanks ⤵

myredhotcar
Grafter
Posts: 457
Registered: 06-11-2013

Re: Bullying on the forum.

Quote from: Devonian
[...] I am being picked on because I am younger than some members and don't follow their rose tinted views on the world.

Hi Devonian
While I have never formally reported a post on this forum to a moderator I flagged a personal insult you made to another forum user in a remark on that thread to OldJim. I was promptly told off for breaking forum rules myself - which is fair enough - as I included a screen grab of a PM OJ sent to me when I was formally warned myself for using the exact same insult (the word idiot) not long after joining the forums. I have, however, vehemently disagreed with yourself and one or two other users in posts regarding race or religion, notably with this thread of my own. I don't know if you class my responses to some of your arguments as bullying which is one of the reasons why I am posting.
The second reason that I am replying to your post is to highlight the fact that individual perception can be massively different from person to person; you mention that you feel picked on because you are younger than some members and you don't share their views on the world. At 35, which is relatively young, I would like to point out the fact that my perception of some of the threads regarding race and/or religion is the polar opposite of yours. I have been assuming that the majority of users on this forum who have different views on topics such as race, religion or sexism are older than myself as I automatically associate certain views on such subjects with the older generation; at risk of you feeling put upon I will be honest and include some of your views in this in the sake of transparency. I assumed you were older than myself. I hold these views as in my experience older people typically have more conservative opinions about certain things, which I guess makes me guilty of prejudice myself.
Finally, you have very forthright views on certain subjects. This isn't a personal criticism or insult as you are entitled to your own opinions, and I respect conviction even if I disagree with the sentiments. However, I feel that if you espouse certain opinions on any public forum you should be prepared for people to strongly disagree with your opinions. This is also a forum for an ISP, which is a business (we have covered this before), and it is bad business practice to become associated with any strong views which may put people off of becoming customers; after all, the bottom line for a business is profit. Therefore I feel it unfair to single out moderators for moderating content (that is their job), and unfair to single out other users for disagreeing with your views, as you enter the lion pit the minute you make your views public; this is the nature of debate. It is also - in my opinion - slightly unfair to complain about users reporting posts which they feel breach the community standards bearing in mind the above. You can always avoid entering the lion pit in the first place by self-moderating what you choose to post, and you have not been forced to join the forum - or indeed post - in the first place.
If I am part of the group (I assume I am) which you feel set upon by I am sorry you feel bullied but I feel you need to take some personal responsibility. I will not, however, apologise for putting my own views across as I feel passionate about certain topics, as it seems some other users do. The lions cannot escape the pit and get into the stands. I would also like to make it clear that even if I disagree with you passionately there is nothing personal; it is some of your views I disagree with and there is no personal agenda.
Community Gaffer
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Re: Bullying on the forum.

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but please can this thread not descend into farce?

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Products Team
If I've been helpful then please give thanks ⤵

Community Veteran
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Re: Bullying on the forum.

Bob,
I did put a suggestion forward a while back which would have made great strides into solving this problem however it was (as usual) ignored.
Many forums have a sin bin where troublesome topics / users get moved when things break out. They're technically not banned but their troublesome topics get put there out of harms way where the users can continue spatting about it out of the main forums way. Those users can then either have their permissions changed so that they can only post in that particular section of the forum OR face no change but have to go to the sin bin to continiue their views and basically admit sin.
Why was my idea ignored? - Wouldn't it be better to do something rather than nothing and then blame it on the users when things deteriorate again?
Just today i got a PM from another member who is frequently trashed around here letting off steam about the way things are going on this board. I thought i was imagining it for years but when you're getting PMs from people who are older than you with their own families also pointing out the bullying and behaviour of the mods then there is clearly something not right. I appreciate our mods have a tough time dealing with some issues but they also refuse to listen to suggestions or accept feedback on their own service. That doesn't quite seem right when people who are much maturer than me (and thus more experienced with how the world works) are complaining about the way this board works.
Just my thoughts.. don't ban me for them!
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
Infinity
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Re: Bullying on the forum.

Quote from: Bob

I think it's important that we don't lose sight of the fact that this is primarily a support forum for feedback and discussion surrounding Plusnet's products and services. Whilst I recognise the merit in Chit Chat for helping build a healthy community, let's be honest, in places it's been anything but that recently.

As Chit Chat has become what it has become,
is it not feasible to introduce another Forum, who's stated intent  is that of a support forum for feedback and discussion surrounding Plusnet's products and services, and Titled as such ?
Which TBH, I thought was already mostly covered in the Your Feedback Forum.