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Brexit Revisited

adrianscotter
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Re: Brexit Revisited


@RobC wrote:

@adrianscotter wrote:

OK, so assuming I take those at face value, what are our options RobC?  Stay as we are? 

 

So why would you NOT take those reports and examine them and confirm they make sense despite them being from the major business group?

Should be pretty easy for anyone with business acumen.

 

No we should not stay as we are.

and the country did NOT vote for no deal, now did it

although I dont dispute a few individuals might have.

 

The country voted for a great deal and no one threatening our place in the single market

- as presented by Johnson among others.

- NOT what is now offered.

 

What is currently offered by Johnson (despite his assurances in the leave campaigns) is no more valid or legitimate than PlusNet saying they will give you unlimited calls and texts with 10GB of data a month for 15 quid

- then when you sign up they say you've only got 100 mins 100 texts and 100MB of data for 50 quid and you are in a contract live with it.

 

.. or some company agreeing to pay you a thousand dollars a day and all expenses to troubleshoot a project if you go over to America,

then saying its 25 dollars an hour and you pay your own expenses when you get there.

 

Now is it?

 

(and you need to look at the outline US proposals for the NHS - they aint intending to buy it - just fleece it)

 

Oh and I just copied and pasted the headlines and left the formatting to the site here.

I must admit, I haven't read the NHS thing, I just don't see how the UK would 'give up' any control in it.

Lets look at this...

If we leave without a deal we revert to WTO rules?  That's a given, there is no other choice.

What kind of deal do you think we'll get RobC? 

For all of the rubbish I've seen from my limited exposure to the UK news, it seems to me that a deal would mean we stay within the customs union, stay within monetary guidelines, stay within food and safety guidelines and be bound by EU rules and regulation. 

 

Now feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here and I have horribly misread things but isn't that just like being in the EU?  Well, more accurately being in the EU without a say in how new rules and regulations are arrived at?  You really want that?  Tell me RobC, what do you think a deal should look like?  Tell me how it would work in real terms with the new laws, rules etc. that the EU will come up with in the future? 

 

If you think the EU will treat us like an equal partner once we're out, you are sadly deluded.  I spent 3 years working for DG13 (an EU department that deals with big finance for big business) and living in Brussels (Avenue Michel Ange - look it up).  I know for a fact that the little people in the EU will do all they can to ensure we don't do well under EU rules.  Do you know why?  Because if we do well under their rules, more countries will leave.  If more countries leave it means their domain shrinks and their jobs become less viable.  In my opinion, the only way forward is under WTO rules because they, at least, will not be biased toward the EU.

 

So tell me RobC, what do you suggest?  I don't want quotes from news sites or news papers, I would like your opinion, what you believe.

Moderator's note by Mike (Mav): Quote fixed.
Live long and prosper!
adrianscotter
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Re: Brexit Revisited

And...

DG 13 now (apparently) has a different function from when I worked there.

Live long and prosper!
RobC
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Re: Brexit Revisited


@adrianscotter wrote:

  I, personally, am sick to the back teeth of the uncertainty

 

‘One of the really big myths out there is that firms can be ready in a way that won’t damage the economy.

There is another myth that No Deal would mean the end of uncertainty for business.

Nothing can be further from the truth.’

 

‘The exasperation and frustration is universal. We must have one deal that protects jobs and livelihoods.

The alternative of a No Deal is that we get mired in a swamp where we’ll need hundreds of smaller deals that will begin from scratch – negotiations from scratch – with all of the arguments continuing endlessly.

 

Carolyn Fairbairn

Head of the CBI representing 190,000 companies

 

 

and Look at the detail of what the UK's WTO deal would be - and it isnt anything like johnson et al allude.

 

 

 

The best deal is quite simply the one we have.

Its that,  or some lesser deal which doesn't really exist (Mays Deal),  or no deal at all.

 

So Put the options which ARE available honestly to the people

The leave campaign did promote that as part of the campaign, and the very different actual reality demands it.

 

* Remain

 - on the deal that we already have with the vetos against things we don't want. - Revoke article 50

 

* No deal

 - No international deals worth mentioning and nothing like what we already have - just Leave - revoke the EU agreements. 3 years is enough to demonstrate there is no other deal to be had that can be agreed. No single market, no customs union. Any future trade deals to be dealt with as all external countries do.

 

 

There is no other option dealwise or democracywise, whatever Johnson or Corbyn might try to claim.

 

 

 

Show us ONE just ONE real, defined benefit for the British public from Brexit

Brexit Promised cake .... But just delivers a stream of Cack
... and expects us all to just swallow it
Brexit - Built from Bovine Manure by Bots
adrianscotter
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Re: Brexit Revisited

Hm, it didn't take my reply properly...

 

I must admit, I haven't read the NHS thing, I just don't see how the UK would 'give up' any control in it.

Lets look at this...

If we leave without a deal we revert to WTO rules?  That's a given, there is no other choice.

What kind of deal do you think we'll get RobC? 

For all of the rubbish I've seen from my limited exposure to the UK news, it seems to me that a deal would mean we stay within the customs union, stay within monetary guidelines, stay within food and safety guidelines and be bound by EU rules and regulation. 

 

Now feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here and I have horribly misread things but isn't that just like being in the EU?  Well, more accurately being in the EU without a say in how new rules and regulations are arrived at?  You really want that?  Tell me RobC, what do you think a deal should look like?  Tell me how it would work in real terms with the new laws, rules etc. that the EU will come up with in the future? 

 

If you think the EU will treat us like an equal partner once we're out, you are sadly deluded.  I spent 3 years working for DG13 (an EU department that deals with big finance for big business) and living in Brussels (Avenue Michel Ange - look it up).  I know for a fact that the little people in the EU will do all they can to ensure we don't do well under EU rules.  Do you know why?  Because if we do well under their rules, more countries will leave.  If more countries leave it means their domain shrinks and their jobs become less viable.  In my opinion, the only way forward is under WTO rules because they, at least, will not be biased toward the EU.

 

So tell me RobC, what do you suggest?  I don't want quotes from news sites or news papers, I would like your opinion, what you believe.

Live long and prosper!
RobC
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Re: Brexit Revisited

I believe I have answered in the post above while you corrected

Yes?

Show us ONE just ONE real, defined benefit for the British public from Brexit

Brexit Promised cake .... But just delivers a stream of Cack
... and expects us all to just swallow it
Brexit - Built from Bovine Manure by Bots
wotsup
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Re: Brexit Revisited

Bercow committing treason by collaborating with EU against UK government.

 

https://order-order.com/2019/10/09/eu-president-bercow-working-block-no-deal/

Highlighted
RobC
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Re: Brexit Revisited

Your presentation reeks of farce as usual.

 

I note that none of you mentioned squat when Bercow restricted the libdems actions during the Tory conference.

Not because he had too, or was in any way required to, but just because it was proper to parliamentary process and dignity.

 

You also didn't hear remainers squeeling about it like a pig waiting quaking in terrified fear of some obnoxious induction ritual at an Eton Tory elite party,

... unlike you kippers at every (half/quarter/quantum bit of an) opportunity.

 

Show us ONE just ONE real, defined benefit for the British public from Brexit

Brexit Promised cake .... But just delivers a stream of Cack
... and expects us all to just swallow it
Brexit - Built from Bovine Manure by Bots
RobPN
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Re: Brexit Revisited


@RobC wrote:

I believe I have answered in the post above while you corrected

Yes?


No, afraid not. You've swayed/persuaded/convinced nobody in their right mind who believes in democracy.  Hard luck.  :grin:

wotsup
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Re: Brexit Revisited

@RobPN 

 

No good expecting anything from RobC except insults and the obvious contempt that elite remain voters reserve for the chattering class leavers....

 

I wonder sometimes how he can bear to be on the same forum with us low life leavers,  his posts are more like royal proclamations ( complete with trumpets ) than a meaningful discussion.. 

Luzern
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Re: Brexit Revisited


@ffox wrote:

@Minivanman wrote:

but then we'd be lowering ourselves to the level of certain remainers who think all leavers are death defying zombies.

Are we bothered? Well not as much as the pro Brussels brigade that's for sure. 


 

Why are you still using the royal "we".  

 


@ffox His royal  p** could be worse as its substitute.:2funny:

No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
Moderator
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Re: Brexit Revisited

Moderator's note(s):

Insulting post removed.

Forum Moderator and Customer
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear - Mark Twain
He who feared he would not succeed sat still

adrianscotter
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Re: Brexit Revisited

So if I'm understanding you RobC, you wish to stay in the EU.  So did I.  Enough people voted to leave, hence we have this issue of a paralysed country for the last 3 years and I was not to get what I wanted.  Sometimes, things happen in life that we don't like, don't want or don't need and we have to learn to adapt, that's all part of life's rich tapestry I'm afraid.

 

I did ask a very specific question.  I didn't expect or indeed want any references to anyone else, just your own words from your own heart.

Can you tell me RobC, what would you do. Put yourself in charge of the UK for today and tell me what YOU would do.  

Given the circumstances we have, the lies that have been told and some of the idiots that seem to have no clue surrounding real life in the UK that are holding seats in government my own personal opinion is that we should leave without a deal, start afresh, learn that being in such a big gang of countries is not in our best interest.

That is MY opinion RobC, now could you tell me what YOU would do without reference to any external people to you?  What YOUR thoughts are to resolve this?

Live long and prosper!
DaveyH
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Re: Brexit Revisited


@wotsup wrote:

@RobPN 

 

No good expecting anything from RobC except insults and the obvious contempt that elite remain voters reserve for the chattering class leavers....

 

 


 

Pot. Kettle. Much.

 

And as is typical of rabid brexiteers completely devoid of any self-awareness...

RobC
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Re: Brexit Revisited

No good expecting anything from RobC except supported information, rational discussion when engaged, 

.. and obvious contempt toward those who spout nothing but chattering Jingoistic nonsense in support of a lying self-serving wealthy entitled elite political class's goals   ....


 

Corrected.

Show us ONE just ONE real, defined benefit for the British public from Brexit

Brexit Promised cake .... But just delivers a stream of Cack
... and expects us all to just swallow it
Brexit - Built from Bovine Manure by Bots
RobC
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Registered: ‎03-12-2016

Re: Brexit Revisited


@adrianscotter wrote:

Can you tell me RobC, what would you do. Put yourself in charge of the UK for today and tell me what YOU would do.  


 

I have already answered. Here it is again:

 

The best deal is quite simply the one we have.

Its that,  or some lesser deal which doesn't really exist (Mays Deal),  or no deal at all

 

So Put the options which ARE available honestly to the people

The leave campaign did promote that as part of the campaign, and the very different actual reality demands it.

 

* Remain

 - on the deal that we already have with the vetos against things we don't want. - Revoke article 50

 

* No deal

 - No international deals worth mentioning and nothing like what we already have - just Leave - revoke the EU agreements.

3 years is enough to demonstrate there is no other deal to be had that can be agreed. No single market, no customs union. Any future trade deals to be dealt with as all external countries do.

 

 

There is no other option dealwise or democracywise, whatever Johnson or Corbyn might try to claim.

 

Put the actual available options to the people.

Show us ONE just ONE real, defined benefit for the British public from Brexit

Brexit Promised cake .... But just delivers a stream of Cack
... and expects us all to just swallow it
Brexit - Built from Bovine Manure by Bots