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Brake pipe flaring.. advice please!

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Brake pipe flaring.. advice please!

Hey gang..
Ok, I've been working on the car lately to get it towards MOT standard so that it can be moved when we move as 7up jnr needs his own room.
So, yesterday i'm inspecting the rear subframe and noticed where a brake pipe runs along it, it's looking badly corroded. I took the subframe off thinking if the pipe is that bad the chassis and top of the subframe won't be great (and i was right but not too bad) however in the process the brake pipe gave up the ghost  Roll eyes
So.. I have a rather long and complicated steel brakeline to fix. Now originally I was going to remove a section of it and replace it with a copper section.. however this tool that I have can apparently only be used for copper, brass and aluminium pipe  Roll eyes

So, first things first, can anyone recommend a flare tool that will also deal with steel pipes?

Secondly, i'm a tad confused about all the flare types. I know I need a male and female flare - one on each pipe. The female is easy with the above tool.. however the make... crikey. Do I want ISO/DIN, bubble, double flare? Does it even matter?

The one on the left goes into my brake line for the caliper, however I'm intending to replace that entire section however my new (36 flaming quid and not doing steel) tool seems to produce the bubble flare on the right  Roll eyes
Can anyone help me out with what type of flare i should be using if it even matters?
Thanks
7up
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25 REPLIES
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Re: Brake pipe flaring.. advice please!

brake lines are something you really should leave to the experts, and i'm not sure the plusnet forums is the place to find those experts to be honest!
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Re: Brake pipe flaring.. advice please!

I used to make up brake pipes, when I was working in a Motor Factors.... We used a bench and vice with a proper die tool.  there were several different "versions" of the male and female... ... the only way we could make the "correct" version was to consult the Brake Pipe Manual, and look up the vehicle details... this then produced a diagram, showing all the pipes in exploded formation... with the appropriate flare end in code... e.g.  a standard BMC type male flare would be something like A3....  and the diag would give the length of that pipe in inches.... so it could be A3 35.... the same location on a Renault, might have been R3 35... but it would have had metric threaded nuts  and possibly different flares, too...
Nuts. would also be male or female... and you could have a male nut on a female flare, and vice versa.
The best thing I would recommend to you, would be to go to your local Motor Factors, and ask them to make the full length of pipe for the position on your car... make a drawing of th end flares just in case they need it... but it should come up on their screen, IF they make up pipes....
Messing around with brake pipes is not recommended.  Get the job done properly....... after all.. you will depend on it....
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Re: Brake pipe flaring.. advice please!

No motor factors around here do them shutter.. and frankly the car is so flaming old i don't think they'd want to anyway  Cheesy Plus it's one of those cars they just don't seem to like... plus if they were to do it the thing would be far too long to fit into our little honda once fully made Wink Oh.. plus i really need to learn how to do this
I'm not against making my own pipes, I'm not in a rush either. The car is being prepped for an MOT so if its not right they'll pickup on it and fail it (and trust me.. i shall be asking them to be very vigilant - can't have 7up jnr in an unsafe car.
Quote from: chenks76
brake lines are something you really should leave to the experts, and i'm not sure the plusnet forums is the place to find those experts to be honest!

Quote from: shutter
I used to make up brake pipes, when I was working in a Motor Factors....

Roll eyes
Chenks you've not really quite got to know the gang here have you? - I have (look at my post count). The chit chat forum is frequented by more ex and current engineers than you can count up to. It's also a good forum for getting maths advice on some very complex stuff.
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Re: Brake pipe flaring.. advice please!

Shutter.. just had a thought.. I've bought copper brake line.. and just realised that copper conducts heat rather well doesn't it. My engine is 2.5L and generates quite a lot of heat. Any risk of boiling the brake fluid or would that need a flame directly on the pipe?
Thanks,
7up
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Re: Brake pipe flaring.. advice please!

Quote from: 7up
Chenks you've not really quite got to know the gang here have you? - I have (look at my post count). The chit chat forum is frequented by more ex and current engineers than you can count up to. It's also a good forum for getting maths advice on some very complex stuff.

you really do seem to cling on that post count don't you.
i can count up to a very high number, are you willing to put money on there being more brake line experts in here than the number i can count up to ? put your money where your mouth is and we shall see.....
i'd be willing to bet there are more morons in here than brake line experts.
shouldn't take me long to spot one  Grin
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Re: Brake pipe flaring.. advice please!

Wont you be able to see the type when you remove the existing pipe(s)?
Regarding copper versus steel, I re-piped my (then) Stag in copper years ago. Bought a pack of replacement pipes already flared etc but never had a problem with the fluid overheating.
My Stag had a 3L V8 with alloy heads!
Geoff,
York.
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Re: Brake pipe flaring.. advice please!

May well be able to see the type of flare..but choosing the correct former for that flare, may be more difficult.... 
nanotm
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Re: Brake pipe flaring.. advice please!

um a more important question would be what pressure do the brake lines run at? most car companies don't use expensive parts if they can get away with cheaper stuff, copper pipes are great for low pressure but steel pipes are better for high pressure, also what type of luid are you using and how much heat /corrosion is it going to conduct through the pipes, all far more important questions than can I get the correct former for this bit of copper .....
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
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Re: Brake pipe flaring.. advice please!

http://www.bennetts.com/brake-tools/copper-brake-pipe-316-2055519-313657-637123.php
Quote
Pure copper brake line.
Copper is slightly more malleable than copper nickel and has a burst pressure of over double the specified SAE standard for brake hoses. Copper nickel has a burst pressure of 60% higher than that of copper and is also TUV approved. As both are corrosion resistant they do not deteriorate like steel
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Re: Brake pipe flaring.. advice please!

Quote from: chenks76
Quote from: 7up
Chenks you've not really quite got to know the gang here have you? - I have (look at my post count). The chit chat forum is frequented by more ex and current engineers than you can count up to. It's also a good forum for getting maths advice on some very complex stuff.

you really do seem to cling on that post count don't you.

Not really.. it's just quicker and easier than typing "go to my profile and look at the date i joined". Most folks would realise that you can't clock up 10k posts very quickly...
You were talking about morons?  Wink
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Re: Brake pipe flaring.. advice please!

Quote from: NedLudd
Wont you be able to see the type when you remove the existing pipe(s)?

You saying that, I did spend more time researching this last night and yes, it appears that my pipes use the DIN flares.. not the bubble flares this tool seems to produce  Roll eyes
I'll try switching the clamps round as the underside has a flat side instead of the bubble shape..
Quote from: nanotm
um a more important question would be what pressure do the brake lines run at? most car companies don't use expensive parts if they can get away with cheaper stuff, copper pipes are great for low pressure but steel pipes are better for high pressure, also what type of luid are you using and how much heat /corrosion is it going to conduct through the pipes, all far more important questions than can I get the correct former for this bit of copper .....

I'm not worried about any of that.. if there was a pressure issue the copper pipe would have pressure ratings etc on the pack. As it doesn't, it should be suitable for all cars - IE tested to destruction to ensure it can be used for pressures exceeding that which cars use.
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Re: Brake pipe flaring.. advice please!

Tip for DIY brake pipe replacement.
Slide the nuts onto the pipe the correct way round before flaring the ends.
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Re: Brake pipe flaring.. advice please!

Yeah.... Forgot that one ! ! ..        Embarrassed        . been there.... done that.... .      Cheesy      ... not too bad doing the first flare... cos you can always take it off the other end  !...
PowerLee
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Re: Brake pipe flaring.. advice please!

£36 for a brake pipe flaring tool is the very diy entry level of the market.

Sykes-Pickavant make the best brake pipe flaring tools, a lot of garages use them.