cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Benefit Culture

Community Veteran
Posts: 14,679
Thanks: 847
Fixes: 12
Registered: ‎01-08-2007

Re: Benefit Culture

Quote from: artmo
There is no easy solution to the lack of taxes paid by the likes of Starbucks and Amazon. There is no solution that the UK can take on its own.

Actually yes there is. You operate here in our country and you pay tax BEFORE sending your profits abroad. If you don't like it, you don't operate here. In reality despite our gloomy economy, there will never be a shortage of companies who want to operate here so they will simply have to learn to pay their fair share of tax. Those who don't.. well do we really want them here anyway? - Will they be a loss if they go?
Seeing as Starbucks claimed to be operating on a loss (yeah right) then they might as well go rather than put themselves out. The very fact that they've agreed to pay a couple of million tax just proves the very point that they were fiddling the books in their own favour.
It's like the bankers.. they keep arguing they need big bonuses to keep and attract the best in the business.. best at what exactly? - Bringing our economy to its knees, sucking the government dry through bailouts? Stuff them. If the greedy bankers want to leave then it makes room for a new breed of genuine bankers who might actually learn from the previous generations mistakes.
The only reason the government claim they can't do anything is because they're scared of making changes that might upset their own applecarts.
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
Devonian
Grafter
Posts: 1,854
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎01-05-2011

Re: Benefit Culture

Quote from: artmo
Fair point Devonian. There are many more people like you thankfully.
There is no easy solution to the lack of taxes paid by the likes of Starbucks and Amazon. There is no solution that the UK can take on its own. 

I disagree to be honest.
There should be no if's or buts, 1 law for all.
Whats to stop me registering myself/business name in Canada, at my Uncles address and trading in Britain and avoiding taxes?
I'm sure there are laws to prevent that (I haven't looked)
My point is, unless the Government step in and say 'No, you WILL pay your share' then these companies will carry on as they are.  It is down to each individual country to ensure the relevant taxes are collected, you can't blame these companies for not paying, if what they do is perfectly legal, then who's fault is it?
It lies squarely with the government.
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,679
Thanks: 847
Fixes: 12
Registered: ‎01-08-2007

Re: Benefit Culture

Quote from: Devonian
Whats to stop me registering myself/business name in Canada, at my Uncles address and trading in Britain and avoiding taxes?

Not a great deal. Thats why many register and operate from places like jersey (or is it guernsey? - I can never remember lol).
As I said, companies should be taxed on money before it goes abroad to their HQ / parent company. That would put a stop to this p*** taking.
I won't use amazon now as a point of principle. Why should I give them an order if they won't contribute to the economy?
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,230
Thanks: 395
Registered: ‎12-08-2007

Re: Benefit Culture

Firstly these companies offer many opportunities for employment and not all at minimum wage.  We shouldn't forget that.
Amazon in the UK is strictly only a distribution company.  When you place an order with them you are dealing with them in Luxemburg. They have set up their business in such a way to show little profit in the UK. That's why i said it requires international agreement to deal with this problem. We are just one of many countries with this problem.
Starbucks had a similar operation. They buy their coffee from Switzerland (Didn't know Switzerland was a coffee producing country Undecided)  and no doubt pay for it at inflated prices so reducing profits in the UK.
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,829
Thanks: 44
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎24-09-2008

Re: Benefit Culture

Quote from: Devonian
Whats to stop me registering myself/business name in Canada, at my Uncles address and trading in Britain and avoiding taxes?

Then you'd probably pay Canadian Taxes.
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,679
Thanks: 847
Fixes: 12
Registered: ‎01-08-2007

Re: Benefit Culture

Quote from: artmo
Firstly these companies offer many opportunities for employment and not all at minimum wage.  We shouldn't forget that.

Yes this is very true and I did think about that when posting what I posted. The thing is though, regardless of tax, these companies will still want to trade in the UK because it's (supposedly) got a lot of money and a lot of custom for them.
Quote from: artmo
Amazon in the UK is strictly only a distribution company.  When you place an order with them you are dealing with them in Luxemburg. They have set up their business in such a way to show little profit in the UK. That's why i said it requires international agreement to deal with this problem. We are just one of many countries with this problem.

I am aware of this and as I said previously, the rules should be changed to stop this. If they operate here then they collect money HERE and then it is taxed before it leaves. When I say operate here I don't mean things like online services (domain names, webhosting etc) I mean if they have physical things here such as warehouses etc then they should be paying tax on the profits they make from the goods they sell and / or distribute from their UK facilities.
Quote from: artmo
Starbucks had a similar operation. They buy their coffee from Switzerland (Didn't know Switzerland was a coffee producing country Undecided)  and no doubt pay for it at inflated prices so reducing profits in the UK.

Yes what a scam. I was horrified by this when it all came out. Granted I knew big businesses did tax fiddles but not to this extent. From memory didn't they have some stupid agreement in writing that 98% of their takings went to the parent company / distributor or something like that? Absolute madness. Clever admittedly but also very nasty when you think about it as services like the NHS desperately need more money to perform properly.
Switzerland makes coffee? Thats news to me too  Shocked
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
Devonian
Grafter
Posts: 1,854
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎01-05-2011

Re: Benefit Culture

Quote from: journeys
Quote from: Devonian
Whats to stop me registering myself/business name in Canada, at my Uncles address and trading in Britain and avoiding taxes?

Then you'd probably pay Canadian Taxes.

Which are a lot lower than here, proving my point.
Devonian
Grafter
Posts: 1,854
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎01-05-2011

Re: Benefit Culture

Personally I don't care how a company is set up.
If I buy something from a company with a .co.uk website, and posting from a UK address, then that business is trading here, and I expect the money I pay in VAT to go to the treasury.
I also expect that company to pay corporation tax.
If they don't pay it, I don't shop with them.
It's that simple.
The likes of Amazon prove why we ALL should be shopping locally, and supporting the small businesses.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,230
Thanks: 395
Registered: ‎12-08-2007

Re: Benefit Culture

What about all the Chinese companies that sell on ebay? You pay your money in the UK or to Luxembourg if you use Paypal and not one penny is paid in UK tax.
With Amazon again you are dealing with them in Europe and all they do in the Uk is distribute the goods.  A purely distribution business like they operate will not be a profit centre for them. They could easily do this say in Belgium or Ireland  without much delay in delivery and possibly no additional shipping costs. This is why there has to be an international arrangement.
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,679
Thanks: 847
Fixes: 12
Registered: ‎01-08-2007

Re: Benefit Culture

Quote from: artmo
What about all the Chinese companies that sell on ebay? You pay your money in the UK or to Luxembourg if you use Paypal and not one penny is paid in UK tax.

Yes but I've covered this before  Roll eyes
They are not in the UK and neither are the goods. Therefore its a foreign company in my eyes.
Quote from: artmo
With Amazon again you are dealing with them in Europe and all they do in the Uk is distribute the goods.  A purely distribution business like they operate will not be a profit centre for them.

That is the point - Amazon are OPERATING with PHYSICAL GOODS from a PHYSICAL LOCATION in this country. That in my eyes says they OPERATE HERE IN THE UK and should be paying tax like any other UK business. It's a cop out to say that they're only distributing from the UK and are actually operating abroad.
Quote from: artmo
They could easily do this say in Belgium or Ireland  without much delay in delivery and possibly no additional shipping costs. This is why there has to be an international arrangement.

This is true indeed. The way the current system works allows all sorts of tax avoidance and it isn't right. Thats why I think we'll both agree (in different ways) that the system needs to change to gain more tax revenue. I'm not a fan of tax (who is?) but these large companies must contribute their share towards the upkeep of our country.
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,230
Thanks: 395
Registered: ‎12-08-2007

Re: Benefit Culture

What would you be taxing in the case of Amazon? Currently it's been agreed they are acting legally in what they are doing.
Devonian
Grafter
Posts: 1,854
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎01-05-2011

Re: Benefit Culture

The revenue generated through Amazon.co.uk is the revenue that should be taxed.
A UK based website, for a company with firm roots operating in the UK.  They have bricks and mortar, staff, offices, suppliers, a courier agreement, the list goes on.
I don't care they have a registered address, they have a physical presence in the UK, the make money in the UK< they should pay taxes in the UK.
These companies are destroying legitimate smaller BRITISH firms, buy not paying taxes and being able to undercut them.
Every time somebody shops with these companies, they are doing their bit to encourage the underhand way they operate.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,230
Thanks: 395
Registered: ‎12-08-2007

Re: Benefit Culture

If I understand you correctly you are advocating a tax on the money they receive from customers Undecided
I think we must say that currently they are not doing anything illegal and pay their tax due under present laws.
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,736
Thanks: 13
Registered: ‎02-02-2008

Re: Benefit Culture

Quote from: artmo
If I understand you correctly you are advocating a tax on the money they receive from customers

VAT at 20% or are all their goods exempt?
Devonian
Grafter
Posts: 1,854
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎01-05-2011

Re: Benefit Culture

Yes the legality is correct, but it's the morality that is wrong.
They are avoiding corporation tax, which is not money the customer pays, it's the money the company pays for the privelledge.
They are exploiting existing laws, made before the internet boom, before multi national companies existed.
Sure, the laws have been tweaked a little, but it's quite plain to see that these large foreign companies are taking advantage big time and need to be stopped.