You can be sure that any changes to tax are always in the governments interest, in short the change results in more money for the government, it therefore follows that someone has to pay extra to cover that increase, hence my point about about the increase in the cost of many things.
I Clearly remember the adverts just before VAT was introduced as we needed a new washing machine and the ads were along the lines of buy before that date as VAT will increase the price by (I think it was 15%) and the price certainly did go up after that date.
Of course the great British public will always lay price rises at the foot of same often unrelated tax change, and ignore other factors.
CPI inflation Great Britain 1973 10.58 %
Agreed. I can't remember VAT being blamed for price rises.
True the chancellor got more money simply because of the way that VAT is collected and passed to the exchequer.
VAT was the worst thing ever thought of Just like the Poll tax
Firstly Rates were based on the notional rental value of the property, which was justified whilst there were a stock of rented properties, and the values kept u.t.d. That time had passed.
The principle of everyone paying towards community costs and benefits is IMO a sound one. Whether the levy was actually to be called Poll Tax I am not sure, but the purposeful sobriquet "Poll Tax" given by the Left was inflammatory and politically motivated.
I'll let folk read for themselves, but from my reading it seems it was poorly implemented in somewhat a hurry. In areas with transients collection was problematic. Another problem was that collection was the responsibility of the householder for all the occupants' liabilities. He was shafted, if anyone refused to pay.
A parent may have let a sprog, just starting work on a low wage, to live without contribution to household costs, when due to the change more was having to be paid. Asking the child to pay could be very problematical.
The system would have been implemented better had there been a mix of a charge against the property and one against occupants; the latter by local levy, or supplement to income tax.
Regrettably we still have a system that relies on the capricious, hurried valuations of decades ago, which bear no relation to current values. When further updating comes the shock will be quite great in comparison to the reviled, so called Poll Tax that would have followed the economy.
11-12-2017 12:16 AM - edited 11-12-2017 12:19 AM
Did the ONS calculate CPI back in 1973? I thought it was only RPI and the so-called underlying rate? The government would always claim that whichever was the lower was the most accurate.
I don't remember the initial rate of VAT (at that age one has other things on one's mind ) but when the Conservative government came to power in 1979, they replaced the rates of 25% for luxury goods and 8% for everything else with a single rate of 15%.
The unpopular local tax introduced by the Thatcher government was called the Community Charge but dubbed the Poll Tax by protesters. There was no suggestion that you'd be barred from voting if you hadn't paid it, and local authorities were not allowed to cross reference their tax records against the electoral roll. It was in my view a fairer tax than rates; a widow left in a large house after her children had left home would not pay as much as a group of young professionals living in a similar property for example.
After Mrs Thatcher had been stabbed in the back by her 'friends' we got the current hybrid called Council Tax which is supposed to be half for the property (like rates) and half for the occupants (like the community charge), and is based on two occupants per property, hence the 25% discount for single occupancy. While the transition took place a discount of £40 was given to Community Charge payers and funded by a 'temporary' increase in VAT from 15 to 17.5%. The people of Wandsworth which had the lowest Community Charge of £36 therefore didn't pay the charge for a year but the council didn't have to pay residents the difference of £4. Needless to say the 'temporary' increase in the rate of VAT became permanent and only reverted to 15% for a few months at the beginning of the recent financial crisis (unfortunately this was a time when I didn't require any high-value items so saved very little), and as we all know it has since been increased to 20%, the only advantage of which is that it is a very easy figure to work with (add 1/5 to put it on and deduct 1/6 to remove it from an item).
I've never understood why we can't have a local income tax. The LibDems have in the past proposed 3.5% which would leave me worse off, but at least it would be fairer. The excuse is always that it is difficult to collect, but HMRC seem to manage it quite nicely (in fact they wrote me a very nice letter recently saying that I was not to worry about paying tax on my savings interst, they would very helpfully take it out of my salary by changing my tax code - just shows there are still some nice people left in the world ).
If you are talking about my earlier post my source was an EU site. UK's RPI inflation would, as now, have been different but closely aligned. In fact it was 10.6%
Some may think a local sales tax a fair way to fund local needs, but that could result in another unfairness. Take as an example New Forest District Council, where I live. Its towns are small, and none are much other than local district centres. For more choice etc. we have to visit places like Bournemouth, Salisbury, Southampton and Poole. They would gain the tax from our spending, whilst our local tax would be onerous, causing shoppers to give less trade to their locals.
@Luzern Yes, it was in response to your post No.60, and, as your figures show, they were indeed closely aligned at the time. The disparity is in the order of one percent a lot of the time these days.
You are of course quite right about the disadvantages of a local sales tax. I forgot to mention the obvious unfairness in failing to 'upgrade' the council tax bands to take account of house price inflation; we now have a situation where even modest houses in this area cost close to £1mill. but pay the same council tax as similar properties in less sought-after parts of the borough worth half as much.
A week of meetings and by tomorrow we will possibly get an idea of the shape of our negotiating position.
Theresa May had a cabinet meeting to put the final touches to her speech that she will deliver tomorrow. She later met Donald Tusk to discuss amongst other things the Northern Irish border issue. Surely it's for the EU to resolve this problem?
It's about time for us to take the initiative and start telling the EU we won't be pushed around. They need to look at the amount of trade that would be put in danger. It may be time to look to WTO rules and get on with getting some trade deals done with other countries around the world.
The PM made her strongest speech to date laying out our position on Brexit. I can see both sides having to make some concessions if a deal is to be struck.
The Irish border issue seems to be a major stumbling block.
It’s ok, all you Brexihadi heroes can relax, knowing you have helped achieve something truly great.
Finally, you and the working class communities who, like you, voted for Brexit will be able to get your champagne in pints again!
03-03-2018 2:02 PM - edited 03-03-2018 2:18 PM
I have removed a whole tranche of posts that are descending into petty bickering, whilst the thread itself is relevant and interesting.
There is no desire from the moderators to lock this thread, but perhaps a little more thought from all parties before posting would be advised.
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