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BREXIT

ffox
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Re: BREXIT

@Minivanman

Sorry, I'm not sure what you are trying to say.


@Minivanman wrote:

Indeed, but it has been exercised as we know - and it is now being ignored.

I don't understand that sentence at all, eg what does "it" refer to?  

And could you give an example of this, please: "... recent history has shown us all to well the tyranny of the minority"?

I found a comment about the tyranny of the minority on the LSE web site but that article is definitely not in favour of Brexit.

 

Minivanman
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Re: BREXIT

Sorry to say it @nozzer, but on this subject you are teaching a Granddad to suck eggs.  

As for "parliamentary rule" we should all know such are not set in stone as we have an unwritten constitution, and although created by precedence it can, it does and it has changed. For example, on who has the right or not to vote - or when obsequious little toady happens to be sitting in the Speakers chair.

Much has changed since Magna Carta y'know.

And research? Been there, done that....  Wink  

Minivanman
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Re: BREXIT

@ffox 

'It' is the B word, and one I was trying here to avoid.

And here you are holding me to account again! Roll eyes

Do I really need to remind you of just one example of the tyranny of the minority, and of a poltical party that took control of the Reichstag with 230 out of 608 seats?

Sorry to go all Godwin there, but it was just to good an example to ignore, 

I will disagree with you about one of my favorite writers whose book I have neve been able to part with. JS Mill was right in his day, but he is not always right in our day but hey, that's just my opinion.

As for Brexit - which you deemed to bring up, consider Mill again where he is right and  ".... a second, and generally a later expedient, was the establishment of constitutional checks, by which the consent of the community, or of a body of some sort, supposed to represent its interests"

John Stuart Mill. On Liberty (1859)

 

 

Minivanman
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Re: BREXIT

@artmo 

Reads like a fair enough summary, although no mention of a no deal Brexit?

 

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Re: BREXIT

@Minivanman 

I'm not teaching anyone to do anything. I'm telling it the way it actually is. 

This is the reason why you can't accept what's going on. 

Again, like I said, do some research. I wasn't aware of what kind of democracy we lived in until I learned about it. 

If you can't accept it it's your loss not mine.

Minivanman
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Re: BREXIT

Well I am not sure just what it is we are disagreeing on @nozzer but you are telling me to do some research - but about what, and what is that I cannot accept? 

Sure they are there to represent, as I said they are not delegates but then this was not an election, it was a referendum or as was mentioned, a plebicite. You cannot offer one thing and when not getting the answer you expect judge it by a different process. If they had made leaving the EU and election issue then yes, the rules of representative democracy would have come into play, but they did not and that is what is not being accepted.

It seems does it not that you are talking about one thing which is represenatative democracy and which I understand and agree on without doing any of the "research" you suggest I undertake, whilst I am talking about how that referedum was not only expected to work, but was fully expected to have been carried out.

Tell me where I am wrong and I will accepot it, but then so must you. No?

  

 

Minivanman
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Re: BREXIT

Just when we thought it could not get any worse, Vince and the Lib Dem Brexit bandwagon trundles into town. Oh dear, oh dear oh dear.

RobC
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Re: BREXIT



@gleneagles wrote:

So let's have a honest answer to the following question from all whom have has followed this topic.

Let us assume those wishing to remain had won with the same majority that those voting to leave had done what would the current situation be ?

 

Clearly some who claim to support democracy clearly have their own version of it.

 




 

ROFL

 

Lets let the brexit campaign answer that

 

 

AND I would defend the Remain decision against any valid evidenced challenges with a supported case

- just the same as I do.

... Possibly even against the unevidenced rhetoric that demonstrably comprises the Leave side

 

 

Farage unfinished business.jpg2 referendums.jpg

 


Want Chlorine bleached chicken, Hormone riddled Beef, Climate Science Denial
.. Milk from infected udders and the NHS sold to US pharmaceuticals and insurance companies?
If you DON'T then DON'T vote for Farage
Brexit - built from Bull* by Bots
Minivanman
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Re: BREXIT

ylrPu5fQ.jpg

RobC
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Re: BREXIT


@nozzer wrote:

@Minivanman 

I'm not teaching anyone to do anything. I'm telling it the way it actually is. 

This is the reason why you can't accept what's going on. 

Again, like I said, do some research. I wasn't aware of what kind of democracy we lived in until I learned about it. 

If you can't accept it it's your loss not mine.


 

and of course the referendum was only advisory under our democratic process and laws

and as previously highlighted, that is the ONLY thing that has prevented a legal challenge and the result overturned due to the laws PROVEN broken during it, all aside from the proven lies.

 

(As the referendum was only advisory, and any result is simply a choice of the elected parliament

the 'advisory' referendum result can't be overturned because of law breaking during it ...)

 

So its ALL down to elected parliamentary decisions ...

 

 

If it were down to the will of the people

- then its quite clear the majority dont want a no deal brexit

- just like the majority in Parliament

- simples really.

 

So lets have the best deal available - the one we already have.


Want Chlorine bleached chicken, Hormone riddled Beef, Climate Science Denial
.. Milk from infected udders and the NHS sold to US pharmaceuticals and insurance companies?
If you DON'T then DON'T vote for Farage
Brexit - built from Bull* by Bots
Minivanman
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Re: BREXIT

Desperate times for a desperate party as they try to garner support and hoover up the votes of Bremainers.

Pathetic.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48064699

How do you get three Liberals to sit on the same stool? Roll eyes

Community Veteran
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Re: BREXIT

Turn it upside down!

Minivanman
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Re: BREXIT

@Mook 

Give that man a coconut! Thumbs Up

RobC
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Re: BREXIT


@RobC wrote:


@gleneagles wrote:

So let's have a honest answer to the following question from all whom have has followed this topic.

Let us assume those wishing to remain had won with the same majority that those voting to leave had done what would the current situation be ?

 




 

ROFL

Lets let the brexit campaign answer that

 

 

Farage unfinished business.jpg2 referendums.jpg

 


 

Did that answer?

- if not why not?

 

 


Want Chlorine bleached chicken, Hormone riddled Beef, Climate Science Denial
.. Milk from infected udders and the NHS sold to US pharmaceuticals and insurance companies?
If you DON'T then DON'T vote for Farage
Brexit - built from Bull* by Bots
RobC
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Re: BREXIT

In the meantime lets take a brief further factual look at the democracy issue

 

brexiters seem to be touting the referendum as legitimate and legal

- it was neither - as demonstrated - repeatedly Smiley

In fact it highlights the Leave side as those Blatantly attempting to subvert democracy

 

 

Aside from the fact a number of its main claims were lies,

There is the simple fact of the Leave campaign using foreign money - which is illegal

- hence completly undemines the very basis of our democratic processes - let alone any single issue.

 

and before the Brexiters shout prove it - thats not the way our democracy is defined

ALL campaigns need are required to prove where the money used came from  and what it was used for,

and a number of the apparently linked (also illegal) leave campaigns simply aren't despite being questioned by select committees (those that turned up)

 

That this is occurring and individuals are NOT being prosecuted is the real undermining of our democracy.

 

 


Want Chlorine bleached chicken, Hormone riddled Beef, Climate Science Denial
.. Milk from infected udders and the NHS sold to US pharmaceuticals and insurance companies?
If you DON'T then DON'T vote for Farage
Brexit - built from Bull* by Bots