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BREXIT

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Aspiring Hero
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Registered: ‎01-09-2007

Re: BREXIT

I'm still waiting for some junior MP somewhere to have a brainwave & say since we "couldn't arrange for a few drinks in a brewery", lets just abandon the whole charade. It's too difficult for us - asking the EU to let us carry on remaining is going to save a pile of money and will only cause us minor embarrassment.

It will never happen - they are much too thick to do the sensible thing.

"In The Beginning Was The Word, And The Word Was Aardvark."

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Seasoned Champion
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Re: BREXIT

@VileReynard wrote:

The master plan for Remain was:-

Step 1. Remain

Step 2,3,4 etc treat any minor issues one at a time.

What an absolutely detailed and spiffing plan.

I have  plan that is more likely to succeed, stand about one foot from brick wall, bang front of head on wall, repeat as many times as you have to in order to get EU to change its plans, you may have to stop before that happens due to serious brain injury or loss of blood or consciousness....

 

Just thought of another less painful but probably no less frustrating plan to deal with EU from within,

stand one foot from a brick wall and discuss with it in detail about how you would like the EU to be reformed, you can even write 'the EU political project' on the wall if you like because after the first month of talking to the wall  you may start to forget who you are supposed to be talking to and what you want,  after a few months you will lose the will to live,  but actually you have more chance of getting a sensible answer from the bricks and mortar than from the EU,  so 'hang on in there you europhile champ you' - and good luck..

 

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Pro
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Re: BREXIT


@wotsup wrote:
@VileReynard wrote:

The master plan for Remain was:-

Step 1. Remain

Step 2,3,4 etc treat any minor issues one at a time.

What an absolutely detailed and spiffing plan.

 

 

 

 

Just thought of another less painful but probably no less frustrating plan to deal with EU from within,

stand one foot from a brick wall and discuss with it in detail about how you would like the EU to be reformed,

 



Like :

 

Reform demand 1.

UK : We dont want EU immigrants who dont earn their keep

Response:

EU: But You always could send back anyone who wasn't working within 3 months. Why don't you?

and your own figures show EU immigrants and migrant workers ADD much more to the UK economy than they take out

 

- The none EU immigrants you allow in are nothing to do with us, despite us allowing them EU privileges as YOU allowed them in.

 

 

Reform demand 2.

UK: OK well we want the borders protected better

EU response:

Perhaps start by stopping letting in so many none EU immigrants?

 

 

Reform demand 3.

UK Cameron : We want our bankers protected from prosecution under EU law for their abuses

Response:

EU : OK but it will be on your citizens heads. We will protect our citizens from them

 

 

Reform demand 4.

UK: We want to pay less for our privileges than anyone else

Response:

EU:  You already do. Had you not noticed?

You also get a rebate and EU support paid to your hardest hit areas and industries.

 

 

Reform Demand 5.

UK: We want more control at home and a greater say than others with you

Response:

EU: In the EU28 you get 13% of the votes - you already do get more influence here.

Your own parliamentary issues are your own to solve.

 

 

Reform demand 6.

We want to be able to negotiate trade deals with the largest best market in the world

Response:

EU: You already have that. and you get preferential access to many other lesser markets included.

 

 

Reform demand 7.

UK ERG: We want to ship in bleached chicken and hormone soaked beef from our business pals in the US and flog them on to EU countries and use zero hours UK slave contracts to do it

Response:

EU: Naff-off

UK people: Naff-off

 

 

 

Show us ONE just ONE real, defined benefit for the British public from Brexit

Brexit Promised cake .... But just delivers a stream of Cack
... and expects us all to just swallow it
Brexit - Built from Bovine Manure by Bots
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Aspiring Hero
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Registered: ‎17-05-2013

Re: BREXIT


@jelv wrote:

@wotsup wrote:

Remain voters are fond of saying leavers did not have a plan, but what was the remainers plan ?  to reform the EU from within, we have been trying to do that since 1973, with little success.


Cameron gave up on the negotiations before the referendum (a) because he thought the result would be remain and (b) because he was useless.

What he should have done is set out how he wanted the EU to change (including a demand for an agreed statement that we would not move any further towards the United States of Europe) and held the referendum on the basis of if we can't get most of these changes to halt some of the fanciful ideas some of the EU leaders have would you want to leave?

I suspect the result of that would have been more than 52-48 and would have given him the power to demand the changes with the threat confirmed by the referendum that if you won't give us what we want we will leave. I suspect the Netherlands and others would have been sympathetic.

If that succeeded it would have been good for the UK and good for the EU.


My underscoring above.

 

Thank-you for that @jelv

At last we have a reasoned comment from a well respected, long-standing member of the forum who is a also Remainer, and who appears to be conceding that there are serious faults with the EUs mission which need changing.

 

Unfortunately, even if Cameron had followed the route suggested, I believe the hierarchy of the EU would still have been too set in their ways to listen.  It is they who are so blind that they refuse to see.

 

It's a shame that some of the other Remainers on here can't see why the Brexiters want out.

 

 

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Pro
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Re: BREXIT

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35622105

 

"What the draft deal said: "The references to an ever closer union among the peoples are... compatible with different paths of integration being available for different member states and do not compel all member states to aim for a common destination."

 

"What the final deal said: "It is recognised that the United Kingdom, in the light of the specific situation it has under the Treaties, is not committed to further political integration into the European Union. The substance of this will be incorporated into the Treaties at the time of their next revision in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Treaties and the respective constitutional requirements of the Member States, so as to make it clear that the references to ever closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom."

 

Show us ONE just ONE real, defined benefit for the British public from Brexit

Brexit Promised cake .... But just delivers a stream of Cack
... and expects us all to just swallow it
Brexit - Built from Bovine Manure by Bots
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Community Veteran
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Re: BREXIT

The problem with that is it creates a two speed EU (or three speed if you consider the 9 EU countries outside of the Eurozone?). I think with the way the wind is blowing in many other EU states today you'd have a far better chance of killing ECU totally and not just a UK opt out.

jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
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Re: BREXIT


@RobC wrote:

That, along with bleached chicken and hormone soaked beef will be what you are eating if the ERG gets its way with Hard Brexit and the rights and regulations protections bonfire.


 

We've said before that UK citizens have been eating bleached chicken and hormone treated beef for many years. Millions of visitors to the US have enjoyed them over the years and I've never heard of any negative effects being suffered by anyone.  Their beef in particular is delicious and much more tasty than ours.

.

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Re: BREXIT


@artmo wrote:

We've said before that UK citizens have been eating bleached chicken and hormone treated beef for many years.  Their beef in particular is delicious and much more tasty than ours.

.


 

If you think they are so yummy,

No one is stopping you from bleaching your chicken (bet you dont)

or injecting your beef with bovine growth hormones (bet you dont)

You have the choice.

 

Why are chicken bleached?

Basically to cover for poor hygiene and atrocious rearing practices to get it 20% cheaper (and often considerably older)

 

Listen to one of your own papers

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4742712/Why-chickens-washed-chlorine.html

"Too fat to stand and their flesh rots while they're alive: The REAL reason America's 'Frankenchickens' have to be washed with chlorine as US industrial farming practices are exposed ahead of possible post-Brexit trade deal"

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4742712/Why-chickens-washed-chlorine.html

 

 

 

I simply dont want it shoved at me without even being labelled

as US producers wouldn't want them labelled and would sue the UK government if they did label them as bleached. (Check out TTIP)

 

 

Show us ONE just ONE real, defined benefit for the British public from Brexit

Brexit Promised cake .... But just delivers a stream of Cack
... and expects us all to just swallow it
Brexit - Built from Bovine Manure by Bots
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Aspiring Hero
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Registered: ‎17-05-2013

Re: BREXIT

If the garbage food you describe makes its way to the UK (I, and I suspect many others, don't want it either), will we be forced to buy it?  I don't think so, and personally, as I do now, I'll continue buying British produce whenever possible.

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Aspiring Hero
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Re: BREXIT

Don't eat out then!

You might be offered a choice of chicken (chlorinated) or beef (mad cow). Grin

You'll be forced to stick to Lamb or Pork or vegetarian.

"In The Beginning Was The Word, And The Word Was Aardvark."

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Aspiring Hero
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Re: BREXIT

Thanks for the advice. I don't do takeaways, whether it involves Chinese cat or better reared British cat, and rarely eat out.

If I do eat out then the meat (beef or lamb) which I choose is normally advertised as 'local' 'welsh' 'westcountry' etc. so reasonably safe.

 

Edit: typo

 

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Aspiring Pro
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Re: BREXIT


@@@Rob wrote:

@christmas

ISTM you have your lines crossed particularly regarding the fish supplied to UK fish & chip shops, which is mainly cod.

In general, the UK does not 'export' cod, although there have been occasions where cod was landed at other EU ports due to price differential between what the UK market was paying and what another EU country would bear,  The amount of cod caught by UK boats is nowhere near enough to satisfy UK demand so it's obvious that the deficit will need to be imported, very little of which is from other EU countries.

 It stands to reason that to meet UK demand, cod needs to be supplied from non-local fishing grounds, which in turn obviously necessitates freezing to keep it in prime condition.  Frozen fish is often fresher than so-called fresh fish, and to suggest that Brits prefer cheaper non-fresh fish is insulting.

 


My fishing tackle is not crossed you are confirming what I indicated.

You point out a vast amount of fish is imported from Iceland & China....did it swim here?

It's not insulting to point out Brits prefer cheap food, it's a fact but it has consequences such as quality and wages paid to workers in the food industry and supermarkets.

The former Managing Director of Aldi recently talked Free Movement but Pro Brexit only focussed on him saying it slowed down wage increases, what they omitted was him comparing the UK wages to those of German staff and explaining the higher wage bill the higher the food price.

If customers demand food at a certain price, something has to give.  

 

 

 

 

For some people own brand baked beans are fine but for connoisseurs beanz meanz Heinz.

 

As I indicated before there are host of reasons why the number of vessels and workers has decreased, such as the size of vessels, technology, technique used, processing, fish management such as the 'Cod Recovery Zone'. Which can make catches around our shores fluctuate widely.

Re cod in 2010 UK vessels loaded landed 14.7 Tonnes in the UK while only 5.9 Tonnes was from foreign vessels. UK vessels landed 11.1 Tonnes abroad.

In 2010 landings by foreign vessels fell by 59%, UK vessels landed 93% of all North Sea Haddock, around 60% of Cod.

I do not see how leaving the EU will resolve the issues the Scottish offshore fishermen spokesman was carping about, the fish aren't going to know if they are in EU or non EU waters.

 

 

 

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Aspiring Pro
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Re: BREXIT

I've seen some daftest arguments but the one demanding to know what plan people voting remain had in mind has to one of the silliest.

Some people seem to forget there were changes due in September if the UK voted remain.

Maybe some people felt they went too far, distancing the UK from the EU and voted Leave. Funny   

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Re: BREXIT


@wotsup wrote:

.....  at least Macron was honest enough to say he could not allow France an in / out referendum because there is enough anti-EU feeling in the country to trigger Frexit. 


That sounds like an admission why Brexit oppose a democratic vote of the people, because Brexiteers know voters having now seen the outcome of their vote will make a different choice. 

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Re: BREXIT


@jelv wrote:

 


Cameron gave up on the negotiations before the referendum (a) because he thought the result would be remain and (b) because he was useless.

What he should have done is set out how he wanted the EU to change (including a demand for an agreed statement that we would not move any further towards the United States of Europe) .....


The final deal stated...

What the final deal said: "It is recognised that the United Kingdom, in the light of the specific situation it has under the Treaties, is not committed to further political integration into the European Union. The substance of this will be incorporated into the Treaties at the time of their next revision in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Treaties and the respective constitutional requirements of the Member States, so as to make it clear that the references to ever closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom."