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BREXIT

Luzern
Seasoned Champion
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Registered: ‎31-07-2007

Re: BREXIT

Perfidious Albion?

No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
wotsup
Aspiring Champion
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Registered: ‎21-11-2018

Re: BREXIT


@TTman wrote:

 why is the backstop so important to the deal when it is not needed for no dealHuhHuhEvil


Well you have hit the nail on the head,  I have seen today that representatives from at least 5 EU countries ( Netherlands, and France included and maybe Germany ) have been speaking to Boris and his colleagues about changing the treaty that Theresa May signed up to ). I am horrified but not surprised when Selmayr and Barnier now say that no deal was never put on the table by May.... seems like May either did not understand negotiating, or deliberately bought a deal back on purpose that she knew would not get through parliament - because she never wanted to leave EU.

Highlighted
Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎12-08-2007

Re: BREXIT


@TTman wrote:

I see Andrew Marr interviewed the Irish deputy prime minister today and insisted that the backstop would not be changed and the backstop was imperitive to the agreement.

 

Later in the interview he said in th case of a no deal

 

 


And he was followed by IDS who poo-pooed all he said. IDS seems to be living in a fantasy world. There's going to be a lot of humble pie eaten in the coming weeks.

.

ffox
Pro
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Registered: ‎08-06-2011

Re: BREXIT

It's over 3 years now since the referendum and I'm curious to know how the country would vote if there were a second one. 

Over 2 million people will have died and the majority of them will have been oldies who voted for leave.  They will have been replaced on the voting list by youngsters, the majority of whom would be for remain.  Those figures would be enough to change the majority view point, but there are other unknowns to consider such as:

 How many people are so fed-up with the whole business that they want closure more than they want to remain?  I know several.

 How many people voted leave because they were lied to and would change that vote now? I know several.

The Northern Ireland problem wasn't really considered at the time of the last referendum. There is now an enhanced risk of the United Kingdom splitting up if there is no deal.  Teresa May's deal was half-hearted.  Etc, etc.  How many people will think it easier to remain rather than try to sort out all the complications?  I know several.

You can't believe the latest polls in the papers because the samples are too small to be representative.  The last 2 in The Daily Mail asked samples of just over 1,000 and about 2,000 people respectively. Can I trust The Mail to choose agencies  that can guarantee a truly representative sample? About as much as I can trust any politician, I guess.   YouGov is a bit better - the poll I quoted in another thread asked 5000+. 

I'd be interested to hear your considered thoughts and guesstimates rather than knee-jerk reactions.

 

 

 

RobPN
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Re: BREXIT

@ffox 

Not wishing to sound rude, but your post is mainly a re-hash, asking the same old questions, mainly put by remoaners.

Minivanman
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Re: BREXIT

Most people of any sense @ffox have given up on the whole shambles to the point where any knee jerk reaction has as much if not more validity than those 'considered thoughts and guesstimates'

 As for how many people voted leave because they were lied to and would change that vote now, well we all "know several" from both sides of the divide, but how many knew they were being lied to but voted to leave anyway I mean, truth from a politician written on the side of a bus, really? To suggest that leavers believed it, is to also suggest they are all stupid right wing over the hill racist - which is where we came in and where of course ipso facto only those that voted to remain had any common sense - which of course is err, nonsense.

Anyway, and for all our sakes it should be done and dusted soon and love or laugh at him Boris looks to be standing firm on this plus of course, Farage confirmed earlier on BBC Radio 4 - accordring to a Paul Brand on Twitter (he's a political pundit/correspondent) - that the Brexit Party won’t stand against Conservative candidates in an election if Boris Johnson promises to leave the EU without a deal which massively helps the Tory vote while the opposition is divided.

PS. @RobPN - Exactly.

 

 

wotsup
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Re: BREXIT

If they would tell the truth this is the reason that remoaners have dragged out the process as long as they can,  but it certainly ain't democracy... Their whole case pivots on the fact that all older people voted leave and all younger ones voted to leave,  which is not true -

https://theday.co.uk/stories/exclusive-youth-vote-would-not-stop-brexit

All that the referendum has highlighted for me is that we have a useless  parliament who are scared of their own shadow and frozen in indecision, turncoat MPs going against the wishes of their constituency voters and to me even more flaws in the EU have been highlighted for the enlightenment of anyone who thought they were the only game in town 3 years ago.  No other EU country will hold an in/out referendum any time soon,  Italy may be the first - Macron already admitted France won't get one because they would most likely vote leave.  The EU is a crumbling 1950's edifice which has long passed its use by date,  we are better out now than waiting for the water to lap around our feet and suddenly find out the German military was in charge of keeping the lifeboats in serviceable condition and sink with the bad ship EU federal superstate project... it will make the Titanic seem small beer when the EU goes down under the weight of its own hubris and ineptitude... bring it on.

 

If we do have an election and Farage does as he recently promised and goes for Labour heartland seats and leaves conservative MPs who are Brexit supporters uncontested there will be a landslide of epic proportions and it will be 450 seats vs 200 in HoC after election day, with Labour taking third place to LibDums ( if they are lucky, otherwise raving loony party may well get more votes than Raving Loony Corbyn - I see Tony B Liar has advised Corbyn not to fight a general election because it would be a disaster,  and Corbyn is saying 'it wll be fine') I want some of the pills Corbyn is popping.

 

RobC
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Re: BREXIT


@wotsup wrote:

If they would tell the truth

 

LMAO.gif

Show us ONE just ONE real, defined benefit for the British public from Brexit
Other than: Bankrupt businesses, Devalued currency, Chlorine bleached chicken, Climate Science Denial, Milk from infected udders and the NHS sold to US pharmaceuticals and insurance companies?

Brexit - Built from Bovine Manure by Bots
RobPN
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Re: BREXIT

Looks like Humpty Dumpty been on the hard stuff again.  Roll eyes

RobC
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Re: BREXIT

So the brexi-tish think that

Despite the referendum and especially vote Leave being driven by lies,

 

a) That No one, let alone millions. have caught on to the fact that they were sold a lie and voted based on lies, and that diddly squat -1 will be delivered from those 'promises and assurances' ,

... or that people are too stupid to see,

...... or that despite all that they wouldn't change their vote anyway

 

b) That despite all the lies and broken promises in selling the leave, (or any position)

that Cameron promised a once in a xxx referendum that 'Brexit' would be upheld by parliament no matter what, no matter that it was based on lies, no matter what it turned out to be, and that he would see it through

... despite him making the referendum advisory and legging it tout suite as soon as the result came in

and THAT Is the only 'truth' that must be upheld and all others are irrelevant

 

Does that about sum it up?

 

Show us ONE just ONE real, defined benefit for the British public from Brexit
Other than: Bankrupt businesses, Devalued currency, Chlorine bleached chicken, Climate Science Denial, Milk from infected udders and the NHS sold to US pharmaceuticals and insurance companies?

Brexit - Built from Bovine Manure by Bots
RobPN
Aspiring Hero
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Registered: ‎17-05-2013

Re: BREXIT

Yet another re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-hash.  Roll eyes

 

PS:   and no, before you say it, I haven't got a stammer!

ffox
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Re: BREXIT

3 knee-jerk reactions generated 6 "thanks", but none of them gave any answers.  It seems that the deflection tactic of being rude about  "remoaners" is a standard response.  Anything else might require some thought. Sad

 

wotsup
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Re: BREXIT

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9850420/brexit-block-useful-work-westminster/

 

Not that I am normally a Sun reader but have to agree with this article,  'remoaners have turned Westminster into a toxic wasteland where no real work is done'.  We can no longer claim to be a democratic country - we are in amongst the countries who used to look to UK for democracy and support, Burma ( Myanamar ) and North Korea,  where democracy has been siezed by people who do not like the result of votes that they lost and will destroy democratic governance to prove a point,  a pyrrhic victory if they do succeed because they will have lost this country while retaining the EU.

Why should EU even think about negotiating a reasonable deal when they have 5th columnists like Hammond and Gauke doing the job of destroying the UK negotiating position.. no wonder they don't take us seriously,  we had on PM who resigned straight after the 2016 result, the PM who replaced him was a remainer and now we have a leaver as PM the likes of Hammond are dead set on trashing democracy and our negotiation leverage.

Community Veteran
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Re: BREXIT

If there ever was a vote between....

Leave - Stay - Just get on with it will you

I'm pretty sure I know which would win by a landslide.

And if everyone had a big red button labelled - press to stop MP's wages and any benefits until things are sorted

Don't you think the sure result of that would really stir MP's into action.

 

I really hope there is no forced election as parliament would really implode with the results. It's already a mess full of exposed ne'er-do-wells.

 

Community Veteran
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Re: BREXIT

Quite likely we will be having an election in days if not weeks.

The question for everyone is this, Do you want Johnson or Corbyn to be the next PM.

Sure you might not want either one but you make a choice or you don't vote and not in a position to complain.

Corbyn and the other rag tale parties want in, The majority of Tories want out.

Most voters just want a (censored ) decision.