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BREXIT

Minivanman
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Re: BREXIT

@artmo 

Of course, it is entirely relavent. Did you not read my post with regards to Godwins law?

"As an on discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison invoking Hitler or the Nazis approaches 1; that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Adolf Hitler or his deed, the point at which effectively the discussion or thread often ends"

'Online discussion, topic or scope, the ending of a thread'?  

No "supposed" about it. Cool smiley

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Re: BREXIT

So let's have a honest answer to the following question from all whom have has followed this topic.

Let us assume those wishing to remain had won with the same majority that those voting to leave had done what would the current situation be ?

I suggest that despite a few protest groups pointing out what a mistake the result was this topic would be long forgotten and accepted by those who voted leave, not happy with the outcome but for the majority acceptance of it.

A vote was held we lost and that's it....and of course no chance of a further referrendum ! or amendments to the decision. !

Clearly some who claim to support democracy clearly have their own version of it.

 

TTman
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Re: BREXIT

@RobC 

Dont remember the brexit party being fined in Feb. Had they actually formed then.

 

Also remember One mans truth is another mans lies!!!!

TTman
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Re: BREXIT

@gleneagles 

Now that is truth!!!!!

Minivanman
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Re: BREXIT

@gleneagles 

The government would have gone "phew, that was close",  the MP's would have given a combined sigh of relief that their cushtie jobs were safe but, "Praise the Lord" Cameron would still have been Prime Minister and his Mrs would not have had that overpriced caravan contraption of his stuck in her back garden. 

As for those like myself who voted to leave, and with utter honesty, I'd have thought well there you go, that was a bloody waste of time and money, and got on with the last little bit of my life.

PS. I was joking about praising any imaginary construct by the way. 

 

 

 

Highlighted
RobPN
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Re: BREXIT


@RobC wrote:

@RobC wrote:  
and Still awaiting your considered responses to the issues I raised by the way - just reminding you.

 


@RobPN wrote:

Happy whistling.  Smiley


 

So you still have no responses or rationale then

I'll consider my evidenced statements incontestable truth.

 

You should perhaps consider your response there when asking any questions....

You may have noticed I sometimes present peoples own statements in quotes back to them.

 


Whoopy doo ...

How could anybody not notice that you quote anything and everything, multiple times as has already been said.

You constantly ask the same questions which by now you ought to have realised aren't going to get any answers ... very tiring ... yawn.

 

To quote ex-Conservative MP Anne Widdecombe who has come out of retirement to stand for the Brexit party in order to "support the will of the people" (yes, that's us Brexiters, who in case it had escaped your attention, won the referendum), added "What the Remain campaign failed to achieve by fear must not be achieved by fatigue,"

 

 

ffox
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Re: BREXIT


@gleneagles wrote:

So let's have a honest answer to the following question from all whom have has followed this topic.

Let us assume those wishing to remain had won with the same majority that those voting to leave had done what would the current situation be ?

I suggest that despite a few protest groups pointing out what a mistake the result was this topic would be long forgotten and accepted by those who voted leave, not happy with the outcome but for the majority acceptance of it

 


I'm sure you are right.  The government would have to do nothing and the issue would fade away. 

However,  "Leave" won (unexpectedly) and because the government was unprepared they let the leavers down by not acting sooner. 

"Clearly some who claim to support democracy clearly have their own version of it."  That is very true too. There are several versions, and many different views of those versions.

Minivanman
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Re: BREXIT

Indeed there are and by gosh there needs to be, as not one size fits all - even if everybody calls it a hat. 

Brexit was a surprise as you say but, it was virtually a yes no majority and democracy untainted... Well almost.Roll eyes

RobC
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Re: BREXIT


@RobPN wrote:

You constantly ask the same questions which by now you ought to have realised aren't going to get any answers ... very tiring ... yawn.

 

There are answers - and we all know them - its not often I ask a question without already having significant evidence of the answer before asking ..

.. even if you are so ashamed of those answers that you would rather willingly play dumb than acknowledge them.

 

I can assure you I'm not ashamed to keep asking them - in fact I consider it a duty. Thumbs Up

So you are going to be very very very tired.

 

 

So rather than the little stuff - Lets stick to the really important Farage policies

-  his long term ones which he has stuck with over many years -  so until we KNOW differently, can and SHOULD assume are STILL his actual policies whatever he says (or more accurately doesn't) let alone whatever he actually implements.

These are reported consistently and repeatedly over many years. Any idiot could find them reported in MANY reputable sources  (and also recordings of his own voice whether considered reputable OR NOT).

 

* Convert the NHS  to a coupon and insurance system

* Deny human driven climate change and revoke the international agreements limiting emissions and setting limit goals

* Revoke human rights conventions (also a right wing Tory policy)

 

So although I, like many others might agree with a few of his statements,

these are real show stoppers that define the man and his intent more than any soundbites ever could.

 

I assume no one will deny those simple easily provable truth of those as his long term policies and statements - even just reading his wiki entry gives most of them.

Easily confirmed by many reporting agencies and other legitimate bodies, his own words, and some even from the mail or express ....

 

 

So wheres the question you might ask?

 

Here it is:

So what has Farage and his MEP's actually done to promote British interests in all that time as an MEP?

I don't mean some waffle and talk abusive  - I mean really worked and created some benefit to UK business?

- Promoted British interests in some significant way that has actually brought some actual real delivered business benefits

 

You know - shown what a true British leader can do for his country whatever situation he finds himself in - let alone a very privileged one?

 

Any?

Anybody?

 

 

 

 

 


Want Chlorine bleached chicken, Hormone riddled Beef, Climate Science Denial
.. Milk from infected udders and the NHS sold to US pharmaceuticals and insurance companies?
If you DON'T then DON'T vote for Farage
Brexit - built from Bull* by Bots
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Re: BREXIT

@quite a few people..

It would be wise to remember that the UK is a Representative Parliamentary Democracy, as has been said in this thread at least a dozen times. This means that you, me, and everyone else in the country have delegated the decisions for how the country is run to elected representatives who can, if they wish, apply their political views as they want. That is the nature of the beast whether we like it or not. Our democracy is not vested in individuals like you and me and everyone else as some on here seem to think.

Cameron promised the result would be accepted no matter what. He can do that in a Representative Democracy like ours but he might have well have said that he would arrange for the sun to rise in the West. It has the same validity.

We may not like it but that's the way it is. Sorry. And if some interpret this as some kind of remainer rant it isn't, it is a statement of complete fact. If you don't believe me, look it up! The fact of the matter is that politicians are interpreting the vote and putting their own decisions to the vote in Parliament, as they can do in this type of democracy.

Write to your MP and keep writing if you want to have an effect. I have many times (about ten actually).

Minivanman
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Re: BREXIT

@nozzer 

Democracy is vested in the people, otherwise it is not a democracy.

Neither is it handed over to our elected members to interpret as they wish. Granted they are not the delegates many would wish them to be but they are there to represent the will of the majority as proscribed by law and not twist and turn it to suit themselves.

If we do not leave the European Union, then democracy as we know it is dead. Period.

Luzern
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Re: BREXIT


@Minivanman wrote:

@nozzer 

Democracy is vested in the people, otherwise it is not a democracy.

@Minivanman Yes, but the people decided long ago that it would not be a plebiscitery system, or a delegate one. That's is as is, and should remain so, unless it is decided under this system, that change be made.....with a majority far in excess of the 4% of the Brexit result combined with a high minimum percentage of the electorate voting.

Change needs safeguards to avoid coming about through demagogic influences, if it is to be truly democratic

No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
Minivanman
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Re: BREXIT

Indeed, but it has been exercised as we know - and it is now being ignored.

Not an expert on constitutional law but I did dare I say it, read Politics and Social Policy as my first degree years back and although much has faded from memory, I still retain a keen interest in matters political and I must say I have never ever seen it become so divisive and so nasty.

We may not like the will of the majority, but recent history has shown us all to well the tyranny of the minority. A reverse of JS Mill, but his world and the rule of the masses was far different from the one we have inherited.

Theory and practice eh, if only they were the same.

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Re: BREXIT

I wonder what I am going to return to when I get home next month. Just read an interesting article in Bloomberg.

 

Bloomberg Brexit Bulletin

.

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Re: BREXIT

@Minivanman 

Like I said, look up the nature of the democracy we live in, and like it or not that's the way it is. It's not my fault, blame the last hundreds of years of parliamentary rule.

In our democracy, power is to elect representatives is vested in the power of the people. Nobody seems to understand this but it is true. Again like I said, do some research.

And people have been saying we don't live in a true democracy for years. Which is true. But there you go.