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BREXIT

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Aspiring Pro
Posts: 737
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Registered: ‎16-01-2011

Re: BREXIT

The cost of Brexit keeps mounting....lost in all the Brexit stories yesterday was a report by the police warning Brexit will impede their abilities to protect British citizens and just to consider alternative arrangements has cost £5m.

The police indicated instead of being able to extradite wanted criminals within hours, the process will be considerably lengthened.  

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Aspiring Pro
Posts: 737
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Registered: ‎16-01-2011

Re: BREXIT

I saw someone had ranting falsely claiming Europhiles are responsible for Brexit and all its issues.

17.4m people voted for Brexit, not knowing what it meant.

Theresa May & her government didn't know what it meant.

Pro Brexit Government Ministers did not know what it meant.

Be it Boris Johnson or Liam Fox other the past 3 years they have announced their differing versions of Brexit.....from leaving with a deal switching to leaving with no deal, leaving within weeks to now talking of 5 years.

It is Pro-Brexit Boris who has been paid  £250,000 a year to undermine the UK's negotiation position even before Article 50 was triggered, he was at it again yesterday.

Pro Brexit and failed negotiator David Davis has joined the Brexit gravy train being paid £60,000 for 20 hours unspecified work by a hardline pro Brexit boss, who just happen to also pay Boris Johnson £10,000.

Both MP's yesterday showed a callous disregard for the 17.4m who voted Leave, a "let them eat cake attitude" when talking about the value of the pound.  

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Community Veteran
Posts: 3,280
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Registered: ‎04-08-2009

Re: BREXIT

Just in case anyone is remotely interested...

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/239706

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Community Veteran
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Re: BREXIT

Signed.

'Un big mess' – how the rest of Europe views Brexit

When parliament sent Theresa May back to Brussels to renegotiate, the Dutch paper Trouw described it thus: “It’s a bit like the crew of the Titanic deciding, by majority vote, that the iceberg really must get out of the way.”

jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
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Hero
Posts: 3,097
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Registered: ‎05-09-2016

Re: BREXIT

@nozzer, your link talks about revoking article 50.  I imagine revoking part of an EU treaty takes quite some time, and if article 50 is revoked, rather than replaced/reworded etc., that effectively means that it will be impossible for any member state to leave the EU.

I wonder if the author means that our period of notice given under article 50 should be extended, which is hardly new thinking since it has been talked about endlessly.

Community Veteran
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Re: BREXIT

@Jonpe

It can be done quickly. Has been ruled out by May though. Not sure I understand your point about making it impossible for countries to leave the EU.

Article 50 TEU must be interpreted as meaning that, where a Member State has notified the European Council, in accordance with that article, of its intention to withdraw from the European Union, that article allows that Member State — for as long as a withdrawal agreement concluded between that Member State and the European Union has not entered into force or, if no such agreement has been concluded, for as long as the two-year period laid down in Article 50(3) TEU, possibly extended in accordance with that paragraph, has not expired — to revoke that notification unilaterally, in an unequivocal and unconditional manner, by a notice addressed to the European Council in writing, after the Member State concerned has taken the revocation decision in accordance with its constitutional requirements. The purpose of that revocation is to confirm the EU membership of the Member State concerned under terms that are unchanged as regards its status as a Member State, and that revocation brings the withdrawal procedure to an end.

 

At the end of this judgement ..  http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=208636&pageIndex=0&doclang=en&mode=re...

It must be done after due diligence regarding the country's constitution, whatever that may be.

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Hero
Posts: 3,128
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Registered: ‎17-05-2013

Re: BREXIT


@christmas wrote:

I saw someone had ranting falsely claiming Europhiles are responsible for Brexit and all its issues.

17.4m people voted for Brexit, not knowing what it meant.

 

 


And how many voted to remain in the Common Market in 1975 not knowing what it meant?  Clearly since then, the UK as a whole woke up and changed its mind about what the Common Market had morphed into.

Just imagine we hadn't stayed in 1975, we might even have benefitted from those European butter and beef mountains alongside the Russians, who kindly took the surplus off their hands at knockdown prices!

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Pro
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Registered: ‎03-12-2016

Re: BREXIT

@Jonpe

I see @nozzer has linked the detail

 

But in simple terms, invoking article 50 (of the Treaty of Lisbon - the EU membership agreement) gave official notice of, and set the date for us to leave the EU (March 29th)

 

 

Revoking article  50, which it has been confirmed we CAN do without needing the agreement of the EU simple tells the EU we have decided not to leave and we will a stay a member on our existing terms, with our exiting rebates and existing get outs of various bits we didn't like.

 All we actually need to do is for the UK government to officially notify them. Nothing more.

 

 

 

The EU has confirmed that the UK can simply unilaterally (without needing EU agreement) revoke article 50 (revoke/quit our notice to leave) and remain in the EU on our existing highly beneficial terms at any time before we actually leave - on March 29th.

Unlike revoking our notice to leave (article 50) - Any extension WILL require the agreement of all the EU 27.

 

 

Perhaps this sometimes gets confused with hard Brexiters stating we should just revoke 'the treaty of Lisbon' (basic legal agreement with the EU) - the ultimate hard crash out.

Questionable legality at best on this and would equate to you simply unilaterally revoking your 12 month agreement 3 months in with a utility supplier.

Although the EU couldn't (more wouldn't) just take us to court and make us 'pay' it would have similar effects to the UK's international 'credit rating' as not paying your leccy would to yours.

 

Article 50 is - article 50 of the treaty of Lisbon.

 

 

Show us ONE just ONE real, defined benefit for the British public from Brexit

Brexit Promised cake .... But just delivers a stream of Cack
... and expects us all to just swallow it
Brexit - Built from Bovine Manure by Bots
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Community Veteran
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Re: BREXIT

@RobC

Errmmm... as far as I'm aware unilateral revocation means just that. In other words no other approvals necessary. From what I've read this is correct. All the ECJ ruling seems to be saying is that as long as it's done constitutionally before the declared date, or any extension subsequently agreed, it is legal and binding. 

 

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/revoking-article-50-after-the-ecjs-ruling/

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Seasoned Champion
Posts: 1,798
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Registered: ‎21-11-2018

Re: BREXIT


@RobPN wrote:

 

And how many voted to remain in the Common Market in 1975 not knowing what it meant?  Clearly since then, the UK as a whole woke up and changed its mind about what the Common Market had morphed into.

Just imagine we hadn't stayed in 1975, we might even have benefitted from those European butter and beef mountains alongside the Russians, who kindly took the surplus off their hands at knockdown prices!


Agree, - this is an interesting article about establishment project fear 1975 ( where the government propaganda machine went into overdrive with all the resources at its disposal )  compared to 2016 version ( using £9million + of taxpayers money + BBC resources on behalf of remain campaign that was never included in the leave campaign spending allowance )..

http://standpointmag.co.uk/node/7089/full

Interesting how joining EEC in 1973 cut our growth, reduced our exports to Europe and strangled our economy for the next 10 years till Maggie Thatcher came along and revitalised things with her new ideas on the economy and our relationship with those pesky Europeans.

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Aspiring Hero
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Registered: ‎01-09-2007

Re: BREXIT

Whatever.........

A lot of people here weren't even born in 1975.

But I was pleased to be able to vote REMAIN in 1975 - that's 44 years ago.

Water under the bridge etc.

Get over it. etc

"In The Beginning Was The Word, And The Word Was Aardvark."

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Hero
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Registered: ‎17-05-2013

Re: BREXIT


@VileReynard wrote:

Whatever.........

A lot of people here weren't even born in 1975.


What's that got to do with the price of fish?

 


But I was pleased to be able to vote REMAIN in 1975 - that's 44 years ago.


So you got your way then, this time around you lost.

 


Water under the bridge etc.

Get over it. etc


It's a shame you don't respect the view of the majority vote in the latest referendum then, water under the bridge and all that, get over it.

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Aspiring Pro
Posts: 737
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Registered: ‎16-01-2011

Re: BREXIT


@wotsup wrote:

 

Interesting how joining EEC in 1973 cut our growth, reduced our exports to Europe and strangled our economy for the next 10 years till Maggie Thatcher came along and revitalised things with her new ideas on the economy and our relationship with those pesky Europeans.

Did it? Did she?

Prior to joining the EEC our exports to those countries between 1965 and 1972 went from 27% to 30% 

(Source: Enoch Powell 1975) 

By 1980 our exports to the EEC had risen to 53%.

(Source: House of Commons Research Briefing 2011)

In 1981/82/83 Saint Margaret over saw a decline to 50%, yes exports did rise but....wait for it, by1993 they were back to 1980 levels in percentage terms.

Let's spend our time instead looking at the UK trade balance....Maggie took us from a trade surplus in 1980 of £1.3bn and in 1981 £3bn leaping to a deficit of -£5bn in 1984 to -£11.6bn in 1987. The following year the trade deficit almost doubled to  -£21.5bn in 1988, I won't shock with the -£24bn deficit in 1889.

(Source: House of Commons Research Briefing 2011)

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Aspiring Pro
Posts: 737
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Registered: ‎16-01-2011

Re: BREXIT


@RobPN wrote: 

And how many voted to remain in the Common Market in 1975 not knowing what it meant?  Clearly since then, the UK as a whole woke up and changed its mind about what the Common Market had morphed into.

 

Yipes, you are still harbouring grudges from the 1970's -1980's, get over it.

 As a percentage of household budgets food costs was slashed during that period, the evidence is in detailed accounts maintained across the UK.

The UK was already in the EEC voters had experience of being of being a member, the British public fully embraced the idea of remaining a member. If they wanted to they could read the Rome Treaty or the UK's agreement with the EEC and I believe Harold Wilson had negotiated different terms prior to the 1975 referendum. 

With Brexit no one had a clue what it meant, I don't recall Vote Leave saying it would cost billions to leave, that their vote was to leave with no deal. Vote leave's cop out for all their wild claims was..."we are not the government". After two years the government still does not know what Brexit is.

At the referendum and after the public were told the EU would prostrate themselves for a deal with the UK, "they need us more than we need them". Our Trade Minister proudly boasted of having 40 trade deals in place the moment we leave the EU....after 2½ years only 2 signed so far and they are supposed to be easy ones. I won't repeat what David Davis claimed. 

 

You seem to think everyone voted leave for the same reason as yourself, that their interpretation of Brexit is the same as yours, but the evidence is to the contrary. The Cameron government had no plan, Leave campaigners had no plan, Theresa May had no plan, David Davis had no idea what he was doing, Chris Grayling is all at sea.

My opinion is that most people aren't interested in the detail they vote on generalities.

The more I observe Brexit the more I think of football fans, who demand the owner spends a fortune on a player or manager, and if its a disaster the fans suddenly deny they ever wanted the player or manager. 

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Seasoned Champion
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Re: BREXIT

@christmas wrote:

You seem to think everyone voted leave for the same reason as yourself, that their interpretation of Brexit is the same as yours, but the evidence is to the contrary.

 

I suppose everyone who voted remain all voted for exactly the same reason as well ( because they loved the EU and all its institutions),  but I know some who actually believed establishment propaganda and that the sky really would fall in, others because they were afraid that their beloved cheap flights ( that are destroying the environment) would disappear. others because they had holiday homes in Europe etc. etc. 

I also know many shallow people who wanted to join Euro 'because they would not have to change money to go on holiday' - they knew nothing ( or cared nothing) about the implications of shackling completely different national economies together with a common currency, but without a coherent fiscal policy.