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BREXIT

christmas
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Re: BREXIT


@wotsup wrote:

.... not everyone voted to join in 1975 ( or actually to remain.....)

 

There are a lot of parties that are using Brexit as an opportunity for political mischief -   over 80% of votes in 2017 general election went to parties with 'respect the referendum result' in their manifesto.


You are not a parrot...and should have your thoughts rather than repeat what you've read or heard from Guido Fawkes.

In 1975 the UK had already been a member of the EEC for about 2 years, so voters had experience of what it was like, are you suggesting if we leave the EU, that having experienced a few years outside the EU there should be a referendum ?

Enoch Powell among others said in 1975 he would never accept a yes vote.

In 1975 our entry had already been negotiated, and is therefore nothing like the vote in 2016 where no one knew the terms of leaving the EU or our future relationship. Vote Leave constantly stressed they were not the government of the day, which they used to let them off the hook for anything they said.

We know pro Brexit campaigners can't agree on what Brexit means, David Davis has a different opinion to that of Liam Fox, Dominic Rabb has a different understanding of Brexit than David Davis and Stephen Barclay a different understanding of Brexit to his two predecessors.

 

As to party politics, the calling of the referendum by a calculating David Cameron was pure party politics to stop Conservative MPs switching to UKIP and Conservative voters following them. The referendum was more about the Conservative party retaining power.

The big mistake Theresa May made was playing party politics with the result and jabbing her finger at Corbyn and attempting to portray him as an ardent Remainer. What she should have done was called all the parties together and the leaders of Northern Ireland, Scotland & Wales to produce a solution in the public interest.

It's daft to claim 80% of the electorate voted for parties over one issue, I'm aware of many remain voters that have no wish to leave the EU and saw the Labour party as a way of getting opinion heard. In 2015 90% of the electorate voted for parties that wanted to remain in the single market & custom union, they didn't suddenly change their mind in 2017.   

I remind you Theresa May said there would be no snap election, like now she is saying there will be no people's election. She asked the public to strengthen her negotiating position with the EU and she promptly lost her majority. People may well have voted for other parties on matters unrelated to Leaving the EU. 

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Re: BREXIT

wotsup
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Re: BREXIT

Why would anyone believe the CBI, the former DG Sir Digby Jones is in favour of brexit ( as is Mervyn king previous governor of bank of England ) , do not expect anyone who is still part of establishment to express anything but remain views - they have not got the b8115, and are still looking at future carreer  path, the rest of the establishment would crucify them....

 

There is a reason the CBI is known as the voice of Brussels ( or lapdog ).

 

Remainers keep saying leavers don't know what they want, but we are in uncharted territory and the truth is remainers took the easy option where they had no decision to make, just more of the same tighter and tighter union with the EU, in a way the people who voted remain opted out of the whole process, taking a default path....

 

The only party in England that was openly anti brexit did very badly in the 2017 election, so if people had been that anti brexit you would have expected libdumbs to do very well..

 

Jeremy Corbyn is a long time hater of EU, he keeps changing his mind due to pressures from members of his party, but make no mistake labour is in chaos at the moment, far worse than Tories - and due to large brexit vote in Labour heartlands they better be very careful how they handle brexit. 

 

 

christmas
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Re: BREXIT


@wotsup wrote:

 

 

The truth about real cost of UK membership of EU.

 

....... 95% of future growth will be outside Eurozone...

 

 

 

 

Most businesses report that (the) amount of paperwork and problems exporting to non EU countries is about the same as to EU........


 

The truth is William Dartmouth is a another Eton Educated member of the political elite.

Blimey you are scrapping the barrel with the 95% future growth figure, back in 2012 it was forecast to be 90% growth by 2015.

But what is it 90% of?

Are you saying you'd prefer a 90% increase of trade with China worth £15.1bn rather than a 10% increase of trade with the EU worth £23.5bn?

In 2000 our trade with China amounted to £1.8bn since which there has been a 830% increase to £16.8.bn.

Whilst since 2000 our trade with other EU countries has gone from £146.8bn to £235.8bn a 60% increase.

Which is the better deal a car priced £100,000 car with a 80% discount or the same car priced at £25,000 with a measly 20% discount. :coolsmiley:

 

 

christmas
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Re: BREXIT


@wotsup wrote:

Why would anyone believe the CBI, the former DG Sir Digby Jones is in favour of brexit ....


I wrote to him during the referendum to correct something he had said in an interview, he didn't acknowledge or respond...his lose.

In one interview he complained of not being able to bring Indian engineers into the country due to being in the EU, not exactly British jobs for British workers.

It's Leave voters who make it clear they don't know what they want and think the phrase, "just get on with" is the answer.

What you seem to be saying if we leave the EU, not only experts will be ditched, planning will be a thing of the past and the country will fly by the seat of its paints. The country isn't the XFactor were people are all 'living the dream', in the land of Brexit patients will be told to close their eyes and imagine they are being treated by a doctor and when they open their eyes they will find they have been magically cured,

The same with housing and schooling.

 

christmas
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Re: BREXIT

Will Theresa May seduce MPs into voting for her deal by offering them a say in triggering the backstop or extending negotiations on the future relationship with the EU?

Could she even offer them a say in the negotiations?

But will MPs trust her, having felt let down in the past?

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Re: BREXIT

A good point has just been raised in the Lords.

If there was a second referendum, the public are now probably so sick of Brexit that they would vote for a cancellation of Article 50 in the hope that Brexit would just go away.

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VileReynard
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Re: BREXIT

I would.

Bring it on!!!!

"In The Beginning Was The Word, And The Word Was Aardvark."

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Re: BREXIT

So a referendrum is 50/50 - it subsequentially goes they way some didn't want it to. The solution is to hold another one in the hope it goes the other way.

I have to laugh. I just love democracy

Or at least I would if we had any.

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VileReynard
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Re: BREXIT

Well that's representative democracy for you.

There are other kinds.

"In The Beginning Was The Word, And The Word Was Aardvark."

christmas
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Re: BREXIT


@Strat wrote:

A good point has just been raised in the Lords.

 


Most people aren't extremely interested in politics they expect politicians to get on with things. I'm someone who over the years has paid my taxes and let the politicians get on with it. I may think they may have taken a wrong decision but things tend to get balanced out, advances in technology probably have more impact than politicians, as we have seen with health care & online shopping.

Some members think merely saying, "get on with it" ie leave the EU will resolve matters but it won't as the next stage is the real nitty gritty and the political draft document agreed by the government leaves open a whole host of areas by using throughout the phrase "a spectrum of options".

We have a Prime Minister who mistakenly lays down conditions & red lines that bind her hands so she ends up using the threat of no deal not against the EU but the British public, whilst also claiming there could be no Brexit to get others of the British public onside.

She may muddle through but will her party and the British public forgive and forget the shambles?  

 

 

christmas
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Re: BREXIT

The geezer that knows how many Conservative MPs have written letters of no confidence, has come out to say he would welcome a delay in next week's Commons Brexit vote.

The Conservative party is usually good at coming to an agreement behind the scenes, is this the first sign of what used to be called the 'grandees' stepping in and taking control?

The DUP and Conservative Brexit MPs are said to have rejected the approach made yesterday by the Prime Minister, but remember the old saying there is no one more stubborn than a woman scorned.  

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Re: BREXIT

Fancy a flutter? Latest Betfair odds.

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Re: BREXIT


@christmas wrote:

The geezer that knows how many Conservative MPs have written letters of no confidence, has come out to say he would welcome a delay in next week's Commons Brexit vote.

The Conservative party is usually good at coming to an agreement behind the scenes, is this the first sign of what used to be called the 'grandees' stepping in and taking control?

The DUP and Conservative Brexit MPs are said to have rejected the approach made yesterday by the Prime Minister, but remember the old saying there is no one more stubborn than a woman scorned.  


 

There is an article in today's FT headed "Leave Campaigners Quietly Prepare for Second Brexit Referendum". You could be right. 

As an aside, the ruling on the Article 50 legal case will be announced next Monday, 10th December, brought forward from the 17th.

wotsup
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Re: BREXIT

https://brexitcentral.com/uks-unnoticed-export-boom-underlines-no-deal-brexit-nothing-fear/

 

 

Wow,  look at this - our balance of payments deficit cut and we are exporting more outside EU.

Bad news for the (  48% ) chicken lickens who are still stuck in the EU battery hen-house afraid to go outside,

 

Figures are from HMRC and ONS - and they are not a 'forecast' ( which can be made as bad or good as the 'assumptions' that are put into computer models ) but real live figures....