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BA strike on

Community Veteran
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Registered: 24-09-2008

BA strike on

Who is in the right.
Will BA soon be another UK company requireing a taxpayers bailout.
Neice of mine is air crew (Flight attendant) on a jumbo for BA, complains about 'over staffing'  says she spend a good section of each flight sat down, to the extent she just requested redundancy.
Personally not flown BA since 2001, don't like changing flights at Heathrow.
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Community Veteran
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Re: BA strike on

There seems to be right and wrong on both sides judging by what I've heard of their arguments.  This strike will cripple BA and could put it into decline and this would be good for nobody.  It's a pity that no agreement came out of the talks.  Hopefully they will carry on talking Undecided
Community Veteran
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Registered: 10-08-2007

Re: BA strike on

BA and Mr Walsh are in the right.
If the cabin crew don't like the terms and conditions changes that are required to rebuild the business, they can leave and try to get a job at one of the other airlines where they will have to work harder for half the money and less perks. If they want to stay they have to adapt to new working practices like most other people have had to do.
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Will BA soon be another UK company requiring a taxpayers bailout
I believe the BA employees would like to think so and then they can maintain the lifestyle they have been accustomed to.
Mr Walsh and his colleagues will be ruthless with these cabin crew people and quite right too!
Quote from: artmo
This strike will cripple BA and could put it into decline and this would be good for nobody.

They already are
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British Airways, which once sold itself as "the world's favourite airline", is now only the third most used airline at home, according to figures released by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) this week. It now flies fewer passengers through British airports than either easyJet or Ryanair. The two low-cost airlines each carried more than 28 million in 2009, while BA carried 26.3 million.

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Re: BA strike on

Quote from: journeys
Will BA soon be another UK company requireing a taxpayers bailout.

Assuming that's a question, I very much doubt it.
The share price is staying steady as investors are assuming that management are taking the right steps to control costs and stop the company pricing itself out of the market.
WW seems to be heading in the same direction that the North American air traffic control system did many years ago - they eventually fired everyone who wanted to stay on the old contracts and hired new staff. If BA can run some sort of service this weekend you can see that will be the direction they'll go in.
Community Veteran
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Re: BA strike on

It will be interesting to see what service they can run this weekend.  The union seems to have got some support from other unions around the world which might be useful to them.  The Teamsters in the US could be particularly useful but they will only be able to support the union within the US labour laws.  Did anyone see the Teamsters leaders on TV this week? I don't think you would want to meet them in a dark ally at night Wink  One was actually called Hoffa - a blast from the past.
Hoffa
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Re: BA strike on

ba is in a bit of a cleft stick, along with all the aviation outfits.  on the one hand they are the carriers people rely on to traverse the globe.  on the other hand, they are the major polluters of the atmosphere and probably responsible for the increasing frequency and intensity of wild weather systems since they are constantly stirring the sky and adding heat to it.
another aspect of the cleft stick is economy.  ba are in business to make a profit, so that they can offer their shareholders a dividend at the end of the year.  too little dividend and the greedy blighters will forsake ba for a better payer.  the people who generate that profit, however, need a living wage, defined as enough to live on and a bit to spare.  increasingly there is the danger that the bit to live on will wholly swallow the bit to spare, leaving nothing left for the few pleasures in life they may allow themselves.
when the penny-profit businesses proliferate, run on lines similar to that of john lewis, this problem will cease to exist, as will the leeches known as shareholders.  in the meantime, those wishing to fly had better take advantage while they may.  and bon voyage.
Community Veteran
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Re: BA strike on

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One was actually called Hoffa - a blast from the past.
isn’t  James P Hoffa. (Current  President of the Teamsters) son of Jimmy?
Can't help but think that if the teamsters get involved, it is not for the long term benefit of BA. Teamsters are out to look after their own members (American owned airlines and their employees).
Given that big company airlines are being squeezed,  one less airline (BA) will keep many more Americans in employment.
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I don't think you would want to meet them in a dark ally at night 
  don't think I'd like to be in any of the unite leaderships shoes either...meeting with them, that kind of meeting only goes one way, the way they want it to go.
Community Veteran
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Re: BA strike on

Yes, the current Hoffa is related to Jimmy.  The teamsters are the most powerful labour union in the world.
David_W
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Re: BA strike on

I don't believe the government will be allowed to bail out BA, unlike the current situation with the banks, BA is in a very competitive industry and the loss of it will not have a major impact on the consumer (yes, lots of jobs will go, but that really isn't a good enough reason).  If the government were forced to bail out BA, the EU would step in (probably at the request of the other airlines) to cite unfair competition.
Basically the government can't realistically bail out one company in a marketplace where it's competitors are doing good, especially as this would have a negative impact on European carriers which are also not allowed to be subsidised.
I sometimes think the Unions *have* to strike every now and then to show they have some uses, neglecting to remember that the coal miners strikes were oh so successful, and the motor industry strikes of the 70's, no lasting effects there.....
BA needs to adapt and change, their hosts/hostesses are already paid the most with the best benefits, if BA goes down they will find themselves out of a job or having to work for the other airlines at a lower wage with less perks.  The Unions don't want change, they would rather see BA go under than accept that BA needs changes.  The only positive side of all this?  With the upcoming rail strikes and BA strikes, hopefully a the next government who isn't being funded by Unite will come down as hard on the unions as Maggie did and really remove their potential to disrupt the average persons life.
Community Veteran
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Re: BA strike on

As you say, the EU would not allow the government to bail out BA.  It won't get that far as I'm sure there will be a compromise reached between company and union.
We have 2 very successful major carriers in the country Virgin and Easyjet and also Ireland's Ryanair.  Any attempt to bail BA out would mean opposition from all three.  Both sides in this dispute should see how these companies run their operations.
David_W
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Re: BA strike on

I believe that BA is the 3rd most popular carrier, after easyjet and ryanair.  For short haul flights the no-frills airlines beat BA because they can offer cheap prices (in part due to having less staff per plane and paying them less) so BA's costs on short haul flights are much higher than the no-frills.  Long haul flights you'll still want to use BA or Virgin, you really don't want to be on a plane for 12 hours where you have to pay £1 to have a pee for instance.
Because of the advent of the internet though, the global economy of long-haul flights for business use has decreased.  You no longer need to fly to Japan for a presentation before getting off to Brazil, you can use the internet, so the business side of BA takes a beating which leaves the consumer side.  That side they are losing to the no-frills airlines.
BA need to cut the number of staff per aircraft, they also need to reduce the wages of their staff.  I believe BA have a tiered system where cabin crew obtain seniority and a higher wage, the budget airlines don't do this.  So the difference could be that losing 1 senior cabin crew could pay for 2 budget cabin crew.
We also have to look at pensions.  Gordon Brown, when he was chancellor, basically robbed companies pensions schemes, he taxed them so much that it became impossible for companies to actually use them, which is one of the reasons we're in a situation with companies having massive pension black holes, if Brown hadn't launched a massive tax operation onto companies pensions, a lot of companies and people would be better off, it's opened a can of trouble for future generations too.
I can't see any justification for a strike though, it probably won't end BA now but who's to say that strikes won't continue until BA back down and agree to unreasonable demands which do drive them under because they are unable to make changes that'll make them profitable.  BA is no longer a government service, it's a private entity that has to make a profit to survive and it's getting harder and harder to make a profit, I cannot see a future with BA in it if the Unions get their way.
Community Veteran
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Re: BA strike on

I shall be flying to America in a week's time and as usual will you US Airways. Good airline and very good prices compared to BA.  I do have a free flight with BA to use sometime but not whilst the present unrest goes on.
As for the pensions, it was one of the points that nearly prevented a deal between BA and Iberia in their recent merger talks.  Here in the UK we had the best pension schemes in the world until Clown Brown got his fingers in the pot. 
pierre_pierre
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Re: BA strike on

And that other Female clown took away the pension ring fences and told them they had too much money and should use it to fund the company, now what was her name Crazy
itsme
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Re: BA strike on

Quote from: artmo
Here in the UK we had the best pension schemes in the world until Clown Brown got his fingers in the pot. 

Only if you are a civil servent or worked for a ex-state owned company like BA and BT. Other company pension schemes are not so good. Also why should company pension schemes be subsidise by the Tax payer? Employees in company schemes have tax advantages unlike employees outside company schemes that contribute into a private scheme.
Community Veteran
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Re: BA strike on

All schemes whether private or company were able to get tax relief on dividends and it was this money that Clown Brown stole from us all.  It was £50Billion to start with and he has taken that each year since. Sad