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Another Holocaust

valart
Grafter
Posts: 418
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Registered: 09-10-2007

Another Holocaust

If Israel laid down their arms there would be another holocaust if Hamas and the Palatinians laid down their arms the middle east would be enriched with technology of Israel and the wonder of it's medical help.
29 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,824
Registered: 27-10-2012

Re: Another Holocaust

It is wrong to label this as a 'holocaust'.
Community Veteran
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Registered: 20-10-2012

Re: Another Holocaust

Plus 1!
Geoff,
York.
valart
Grafter
Posts: 418
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Registered: 09-10-2007

Re: Another Holocaust

I did not say that I spoke to Palestinians when I was in Israel last year and they were happy working in Israel they told me that Hamas are using them.
Community Veteran
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Re: Another Holocaust

A very random blurb from a member we don't see often!
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,824
Registered: 27-10-2012

Re: Another Holocaust

Quote from: valart
I did not say that I spoke to Palestinians when I was in Israel last year and they were happy working in Israel they told me that Hamas are using them.

Apologies, I misread what you wrote.
valart
Grafter
Posts: 418
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Registered: 09-10-2007

Re: Another Holocaust

It is very easy to crittise in the comfort of our homes when rockets are falling,I know how it feels I was brought up in the east end of London during the blitz I was a little boy at the time and we never new when we were going to die
VileReynard
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Re: Another Holocaust

Quote from: AndyH
It is wrong to label this as a 'holocaust'.

What word would you find preferable?
Mass murder of civilians sounds like a holocaust to me.

Community Veteran
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Registered: 27-10-2012

Re: Another Holocaust

Quote from: vilefoxdemonofdoom
What word would you find preferable?

Tragedy? Calamity (although, this word has a double meaning in Hebrew)?
Holocaust is neither an applicable, nor appropriate word in this situation.
VileReynard
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Re: Another Holocaust

A premeditated War crime?

valart
Grafter
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Registered: 09-10-2007

Re: Another Holocaust

What would call the atomic bomb on Hiroshima a war crime?
VileReynard
Seasoned Pro
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Re: Another Holocaust

I'm not sure - even though the bombing it was aimed at civilians.
However, presumably in WWII the necessary legal framework was not in place.
Otherwise indiscriminate bombing of cities, practised by many countries at the time (including us) would be included.
Dropping nuclear bombs in our more enlightened(?) times would quite properly be a serious war crime.

WTF
Grafter
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Registered: 14-09-2012

Re: Another Holocaust

Quote from: valart
What would call the atomic bomb on Hiroshima a war crime?

By current standards, undoubtedly: they deliberately - and needlessly - targetted civilians at a time when they were refusing to negotiate surrender terms with the Japanese.
Nagasaki was an even worse crime: the only reason for that was to please the other bomb manufacturer.
The Americans could have demonstrated the power of the bomb by dropping it miles out to sea where the detonation could be observed by the Japanese - say, 50 miles from Tokyo.  There was absolutely no need to bomb a city.  Particularly when, as I say, the Japanese had been desperately trying to negotiate a surrender for months.
Glenn
Grafter
Posts: 332
Registered: 12-02-2013

Re: Another Holocaust

The OP said there would be another haulocaust if Israel laid down it's arms....some seem to be missing the point.
@ WTF.....Japan didn't surrender after the first A-Bomb was dropped....so your suggestion is mute.
WTF
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Registered: 14-09-2012

Re: Another Holocaust

Quote from: Glenn
@ WTF.....Japan didn't surrender after the first A-Bomb was dropped....so your suggestion is mute.

Err .. I never said they did.
What I said - and what is factually correct - is that Japan had been trying to negotiate surrender via the Russians PRIOR to EITHER bomb being dropped.
As for the Japanese not surrendering after the first bomb: they didn't have time!  The first bomb was dropped on August 6th and the second on August 9th.  The country had already been bombed back to the stone age: it took nearly all that time for the government in Tokyo to begin to understand what had actually happened at Hiroshima.  Don't forget that, on August 5th, a weapon of that power was the stuff of science fiction to all but a few thousand people out in a dessert in the USA.
Re the original question: it's absurd and totally nonsensical.  First, the Israelis will never lay down their arms.  Second, if they did surrender, why would Hamas or any Palestinian group - who would have won and could therefore presumably just throw out people they didn't want - go on a crazed killing spree?  The entire idea is beyond ridiculous.
Having said that, should Hamas be firing rockets at Israeli civilians and should Israel be bombing and shelling Palestinian civilians?  Absolutely not.  
I spent 6 months in Israel right after the invasion of Lebanon.  The way the Palestinians were treated was atrocious: pretty much every foreigner I met while I was there arrived broadly pro-Israeli and left very sympathetic to the Palestinians.
Having said that, the Israelis were not acting in a vacuum and if you look at what we have done following 9/11, we definitely can't lecture them.  And they genuinely face an existential terrorist threat: we indisputably do not.
The situation is complex and apparently intractable. Ironically, the solution is clear, simple and broadly agreed by all observers.  And has been for at least 30 years. A two state solution.
Unfortunately, neither party appears willing to accept the solution: Israel unilaterally moved out of regions that could constitute a Palestinian state but on the other hand, imposed draconian control over the borders - and hence the entire economy - and continued to build settlements on other Palestinian land.  Hamas and others took control of the land the Israelis left, but then continued to attack Israel.
Does either side hold the moral high ground?  Highly doubtful, at this stage.