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Abu been deported?

Community Veteran
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Abu been deported?

I am shocked that Abu Hamza is allowed to stay here in the UK. A sad day for the UK when we're told to keep terrorists safe and alive while paying £Millions out in legal fees, benefits etc at the same time.
Can't we just send him to America instead like we did with Abu Qatada?
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Community Veteran
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Re: Abu been deported?

I Don't think America want him, it's Jordan that's after him.
No surprise that we can't send him as the EU has told us we cannot do so and out politicians are so weak they do as they are told by the EU.
The Fact that the money we spend on keeping him here could be used for far more useful purposes seems beyond them, perhaps it's because it's our money.
He is something else to irritate you, the government are talking about getting involved in the Syrian conflict, they simply seem unable to learn.
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Re: Abu been deported?

Quote from: gleneagles
He is something else to irritate you, the government are talking about getting involved in the Syrian conflict, they simply seem unable to learn.

Yes I noticed that too. I was once asking why DC hadn't taken action earlier then realised that Assad (or whatever his name is) has a wife with connections in the UK. I can't believe that DC stood by for so long and let thousands of people get slaughtered just because there is some british high society woman out there.
We've since had even more military cuts, have virtually no troops, no hardware, no ships and only just a few planes. Now he wants to do something.. him and what army?  Roll eyes Where does he think the money is coming from for that? Angry
You're right about the leaders in this country, they are incredibly weak.
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David_W
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Re: Abu been deported?

We cannot break human rights laws, not now, not ever, no matter what we think of the person involved.  The UK tends to stand up and be counted when it comes to human rights, if we see abuses of it then we rightly condemn the abuses.  If however we were to ignore human rights because we think the person involved really should be thrown out because we don't like him, then we lose the right to condemn any other country for human rights abuses "hey you, stop breaking human rights laws!" - "why should we? You broke them, do as we say not as we do?"
Hopefully we can win the appeal and throw him out, or maybe we can mandate that he has to live with his solicitor for the next 6 years, but what we can't do is ignore our responsibilities as a reasonably decent country.
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Re: Abu been deported?

Whilst I understand your line of thinking it is totally wrong to accept one person should have their human rights protected whilst at the same time ignoring the human rights of others.
There is no question that this man is an enemy of this country as there is clear video evidence of him going on about killing Jews and non believers. This is incitement to hatred and may well have encouraged or give encouragement to those who carry out these tasks both in this country and abroad.
If you want to talk about human rights look at all the people denied treatment for cancer and other diseases because it's to expensive or those put on the Liverpool pathway. Stacks of other things come to mind but I am sure you get the point.
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Re: Abu been deported?

Well said gleneagles.
On that note I've been suffering with health problems for over 5 years that the NHS openly admit they can fix. They simply won't.
Somehow though, I am worth less and have less rights than a known terrorist and hate preacher. Whats right about that?
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itsme
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Re: Abu been deported?

Quote from: gleneagles
No surprise that we can't send him as the EU has told us we cannot do so and out politicians are so weak they do as they are told by the EU.

Is it the EU? Thought it was the the Council of Europe which control the European Court of Human Rights. The Council of Europe has 47 member states while the EU only have 27 member states.
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Re: Abu been deported?

Quote from: Sprite
On that note I've been suffering with health problems for over 5 years that the NHS openly admit they can fix. They simply won't.

That's tough sprite, I'm sorry.
On Human rights, I've said it before. Human rights are a two way version of 'the golden rule' One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.
Committing a crime or harm against another person precludes you from using the human rights argument.
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Re: Abu been deported?

Quote from: itsme
Council of Europe which control the European Court of Human Rights. The Council of Europe has 47 member states while the EU only have 27 member states.

And predated it by several years. ECHR was in force well before the EU was started.
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Re: Abu been deported?

Quote from: journeys
On Human rights, I've said it before. Human rights are a two way version of 'the golden rule' One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.
Committing a crime or harm against another person precludes you from using the human rights argument.

Thats how it should be but these days it seems that you have no rights until you annoy the state. At that point they'll bend over backwards to keep you quiet it seems.
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David_W
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Re: Abu been deported?

You can't protect one persons human rights by taking away the human rights of another person, it doesn't work like that, and down that road leads madness.  If we could remove peoples human rights then where would it end?  Would Christians be able to remove the human rights of gay couples because they disagree with it on religious grounds?
The insane cleric may be smirking at us and our system, but our system is proving him wrong, it's showing that our system isn't barbaric, it's a system which is protecting him from a system that he preaches himself, so he can go out there and burn flags, shout all he likes and a person can point and him, laugh, and say "dude, you're burning the flag of a country that is protecting you and your human rights, maybe you should consider that just for a moment......".
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Re: Abu been deported?

But if the cost of providing one person with their human rights results in denying other people their human rights then a bit of common sense has to be employed.
True the majority of people can laugh at him and say "dude, you're burning the flag of a country that is protecting you and your human rights........." but equally there will be a number of people not laughing and these fall into 3 groups.
Group 1 who think he is right and persuade other to take action or give support to those who take action, which often results in injury or death of innocent people.
Group 2 who find that a range of supporting services to the needy are being run down in this country because there is no money to fund them 
Group 3 Are the families of soldiers and other victims who have died at the hands of those this Preacher supports and gives encouragement too.
Remember is is just one of many hundreds of people who have been allowed to stay in this country because of their human rights, these include rapists, murderers and many others who have broken the law in this or their own country before coming here, add the cost of that lot to the bill and you are talking millions of pounds, no doubt these group of people are also having a laugh at our expense along with advertising to the world what a soft touch we are and that we have a Government that will protect anyone's human rights unless they have paid into the system for years, kept out of trouble and are a British citizen !
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Re: Abu been deported?

My grandad used to have a saying...
Line the bastards up against the wall and shoot the lot of them!

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Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear - Mark Twain
He who feared he would not succeed sat still

David_W
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Re: Abu been deported?

Quote from: gleneagles
Group 3 Are the families of soldiers and other victims who have died at the hands of those this Preacher supports and gives encouragement too.

Our armed forces (who are pretty wonderful, my dad was in the navy, 2 close friends are army/navy) have fought wars to protect us, our way of life and our freedoms, including the (limited) freedom of speech that we have, if people have died to protect our freedom of speech then taking away peoples freedom of speech because we don't want to hear what they have to say flies directly in the face of what our soldiers have fought to protect!  We're in Afghanistan and Iraq trying (and dying) to give the people in these countries the freedoms that we enjoy, where a government won't oppress you because you have ideas which are not popular, it's a pretty sick world if we're on one hand trying to give people these rights when on the other hand we're trying to take them away in our own country.
I'll be as happy as anyone else when Abu (hopefully) gets thrown out, but that doesn't mean we have to ignore his rights because he's a bit of an obnoxious plank.  Where would it stop?  A natural born Brit who has a bit of an extreme view and burns flags/poppies etc. but is British so can't be deported, isn't wanted anywhere, do we shut him up in prison because we don't want him to express his views?
Steve
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Re: Abu been deported?

mi5 could sort this out In a heartbeat Smiley