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A Disgrace:

thisoldman
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A Disgrace:

11 REPLIES
pierre_pierre
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Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: A Disgrace:

nothing new there just watch this daily program
DOCUMENTARY: Saints and Scroungers
On: BBC 1    Date: Wednesday 26th January 2011 Time: 11:00 to 11:45 (45 minutes long)
Dominic Littlewood presents a series looking at the work of fraud investigators searching out benefit thieves and meets the people they are stealing from - the genuine claimants. A married couple from Essex are under suspicion of the biggest benefit fraud in Epping Council's history, ripping the tax payer off to the tune of 130,000 pounds. And 14-year-old Josh Lowe has health problems that mean he can't get around his school - but there are people ready to help.
(Stereo, Widescreen, Subtitles)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Excerpt taken from DigiGuide - the world's best TV guide available from http://www.getdigiguide.tv/?p=1&r=17639
Copyright (c) GipsyMedia Limited.
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Re: A Disgrace:

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Re: A Disgrace:

Quote from: pierre_pierre
Dominic Littlewood presents a series looking at the work of fraud investigators searching out benefit thieves and meets the people they are stealing from - the genuine claimants.

Well when I've been on JSA I've never had a letter come through saying "We caught a benefit cheat so your money is going up". Stealing from genuine claimants or from the government? - Sounds like the Gov are exagerating as usual.
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
David_W
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Re: A Disgrace:

Saints and Sinners, excellent programme which would put this thread into context.  They had one woman with Parkinsons I believe, totally unable to work AND over retirement age, she was using her life savings to survive on so wasn't eligible for benefits because of how much money she had.  Naturally over time she spent the money (no income, just out goings).  She was turned down for benefits even though she was entitled to them, it wasn't until a man went through every form with her (again) and went through the appeals process that she was deemed qualified for the benefits.
My mother, she had a frozen shoulder, couldn't hardly move her arm and was in intense pain.  Her GP, surgeon, specialist, the important people who knew her case inside out stated she could not work, the doctor at the assessment said "yep, you're fit to work", then it becomes a choice of going onto JSA or appealing on half benefits, or appealing and going on JSA which could (in my opinion) be a crime due to the fact that to claim JSA you state you are fit to work.
Myself (very long term illness), the stupid doctor at the assessment said "yeah, you're fit to work".  I went to the appeals because I can't even go in to a job centre, let alone 3 times a week to look for a job.  I went to the appeals with 9 points (required 10), showed them a bit of paper the DSS had sent me which proved 100% that they marked a question incorrectly so I should have been awarded a point for that (taking me to 10).  I left with 13 points when I shouldn't even have had to go to the appeals procedure but the doctor was about as useless as a chocolate fire guard.
Midnight_Caller
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Re: A Disgrace:

Quote from: thisoldman
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/225311.
enough said.

From the replies
[quote="LIES, DAMN LIES AND STATISTICS."]
26.01.11, 1:08pm
odd that nowhere does it mention that prosecutions for fraud for disability related benefits are far lower than for most other benefits including pension credits and benefits paid to single mothers who it turns out have a partner.
Odd that it doesnt make clear that everyone applying for ESA does have a medical and that the vast majority of those on IB have had medicals sometimes on a yearly basis.
It seems that at the moment its seen as ok to suggest that vast numbers of sick and disabled people are cheats frauds and scroungers.. in ways that no other group would be targetted. but hey we are easy targets.
Odd that the article doesnt mention that many employers admit theyd not employ a disabled person and particularly would be reluctant if that person had a long term or fluctating conditioon .
The truth is that most disabled and sick people get their benefits after lengthy form filling and an arduous but often not fit for purpose medical.. often the report from that medical is factually innaccurate , takes little account of the way multiple conditions effect s real life persons ability to function and dont reflect the way someones ability to work would be effected by things like chronic pain, fatigue and the need to rest frequently when having a bad day.
This reporting will simply lead to more disabled people being questioned and criticised and scrutinised because they dare tyo walk down the street to a local shop or visit a library alone..
I guess we're the only group the media and politicians think its ok to discriminate against and make look like an underclass'' Ill get my lepers bell and ring it shall I?

Watt I agree with 100%
jmd
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Re: A Disgrace:

I can remember some years ago [before JSA/ESA] when I worked at the JobCentre and I was on reception for new claims.  We did not have targets as strict as they are nowadays. We were based up one flight of stairs and through the office so people had to be fit to get to us!
One poor man arrived at my desk and was panting, shaking and in great distress. He had had to use a taxi to get to office.  He had been told in a letter that he was fit for work and had lung cancer, heart problems etc!  The poor man needed a drink of water and sit a while before he could even speak.  Myself and a colleague did some phone calls for him, found out what had happened and ensured that his invalidity benefit was not stopped - and then an adviser who did not have an appointment helped him back downstairs and took him to his car and drove him home.
A few days later we got a lovely letter from him thanking us for our kindness and assistance and when we showed it the Manager he told us off!! We should have made him claim Unemployment Benefit and then appeal - we had not folllowed the correct procedure............... I turned round and said that had we done so, we would have had a dead body in office and procedure be blowed!
Then I wondered why I never got the higher paid posts that were advertised even though I could "act up" in the higher grade.  Obviously, you were supposed to follow procedure and not worry about the people that were in need of help!  So just remember that not all JobCentre staff are heartless and uncaring but unfortunately when they brought in performance pay/targets some became so!
At the other extreme we knew when someone was "on the fiddle" - arriving to sign on by taxi, or paint on their clothes, coming in at the wrong time [especially lunchtime] but it infuriated me when no action was taken regarding the more obvious but petty offenders as the Fraud Dept wanted the bigger offenders.
I find that programme quite interesting.

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Re: A Disgrace:

I Have often wondered what happens when people get found guilty of fiddling benefits.
Apart from community service or other penalty the court decides do they have to pay all the money back ? If they do not have the money are any existing benefits stopped until the sum stolen is made up or the services of a bailiff used ?
Guess I am asking a question of which I suspect I already know the answer but would be interested to know for certain.
pierre_pierre
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Re: A Disgrace:

seems to depend on the Judge, a lot have had their assets seized, a lot jail, some be a good lad
David_W
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Re: A Disgrace:

I'd guess it depends on the person too.  If someone raking in 30k/pa is fiddling the system (benefits, housing benefit, council tax etc.) then the Judge should order them to pay everything they were not entitled to back, someone on benefits who wrongly claimed though may be told to pay it back, but at £1 a month over 7,000,000 months.
pierre_pierre
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Posts: 19,757
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: A Disgrace:

Just watching an older copy of Saints and Scroungers, it called the Proceeds of Crime Act  http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/29/contents  and Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proceeds_of_Crime_Act_2002
pierre_pierre
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Posts: 19,757
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: A Disgrace:

the case was a couple of Nigerians scamming housing benefit, the male locked up for 18 month, the female tagged, and £43500 plus court fees snatched back