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4 more examples of "what a stupid country we live in "

thisoldman
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Re: 4 more examples of "what a stupid country we live in "

Having spent the best part of this week hanging about our local hospital I have to say that the title of this thread is absolutely correct.
The news is full of the rubbish about the fornicator Rooney and his football (and other) exploits for which he is paid an absolutely obscene sum of money.
Meanwhile, I have witnessed the fantastic efforts of our NHS staff who get paid a tiny fraction of this man's income.  They are truly wonderful and I don't know where we would be without them.
If folk gave a bit of (real) thought to the stupidity of this then maybe they would be a bit less willing to part with their money for season tickets and for Sky TV who make it all possible, particularly with the advertising revenue. 
Quite frankly, it makes me feel sick and very angry.  Angry 
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Re: 4 more examples of "what a stupid country we live in "

Absolutely agree.
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David_W
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Re: 4 more examples of "what a stupid country we live in "

I think you may need better sources than such a scaremongering rag...
Quote
‘It would cut government employment by 490,000 workers at a time when the private sector is in no position to provide alternative employment,’ he said. ‘It would slash spending at a time when private demand isn’t at all ready to take up the slack.

AFAIK there are only 500,000 government workers so cutting it down to only 10,000 = impossible.  Of course, one could suggest that by cutting the civil service and moving services into the private sector it creates jobs in the private sector which then pick up the slack without the tax payer having to pay for pensions thereby not only saving us money now but saving us money in the future.  His method of "keep sticking it on the credit cards until things pick up" is a terrible idea, that isn't a solution, that provides for more issues down the line with a down-rating of our credit rating from AAA which in turn results in higher interest payments which in turn puts jobs at risk as the government needs to find more money to pay the higher interest.  Yeah, terrible article, you may as well read the political opinion from The Sun, they are both about as accurate and unbiased as each other.
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Re: 4 more examples of "what a stupid country we live in "

Quote from: David
AFAIK there are only 500,000 government workers so cutting it down to only 10,000 = impossible.

Yes but when I worked for them that was JUST the DWP. Imagine how many work in HMRC, Whitehall, Army, RAF, Navy...
1 in 5 people currently work for the public sector. By your statement there are only 2.5 million people in the country. Considering that a couple of years ago the unemployment figures were 2-3 million then that would mean the whole country was unemployed.
I think someone got their numbers wrong..
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jmd
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Re: 4 more examples of "what a stupid country we live in "

What annoys me is that they talk about cutting benefits so folk cannot get more on benefit than what they would in wages.  Well in the 1980s there was something called "wagestop" which meant that unemployment benefit and other benefits did not go above the last wage paid to a person who was signing on.  Who stopped the "wage stop"?
The Conservatives under Mrs Thatcher.
David_W
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Re: 4 more examples of "what a stupid country we live in "

@okrzynska - he didn't get his numbers wrong just his phrase.  After reading on the BBC website it's 500k public sector workers, not 500k government workers (government workers are civil servants).
These cuts though, they do need to be made.  Any person who is paid by the government for work is a non-taxpayer, by that I mean, their wages are themselves tax, so any tax they are paid is just them putting the tax back into the system, they don't relieve the tax burden as it were so dropping 500k (from around 6-7 million) is a drop in the ocean, especially as it'll be from all public sectors.
The most stupid part of it, people are going (and already are) to blame the current government for all the problems, promptly forgetting that it was labours mishandling of our economy that caused it to crash so spectacularly.  The unions (bless em, they got to call for strikes else why would people pay their wages?) want the government to... get this... do nothing at all!  I'm seriously going to write a letter to my credit card company and say "well, the unions say it's alright for the government to do nowt so, yeah, I'ma do nowt too about my debt to you, you're ok with that right?" I'm sure the answer will be "umm, no, pay up else it'll only get worse".
However, Cameron/Clegg are not stupid, their 4 year plan is a 4 year plan for a reason.  It gives them 1 year to get the cash flow under control with an election looming they can make sweeping tax cuts and pile on investments to try and make people happy so they won't all vote labour and send the country back down the road to ruin.  If the plan were to take 6 years we would have 6 years of cuts in public sector and investment which people would take to the polling stations with them so I say yeah, 4 years is fine, get it all done and out of the way so we can move forward past this travesty of "big brother, big spending" government that we've become accustomed to.
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Re: 4 more examples of "what a stupid country we live in "

Quote from: David
@okrzynska - he didn't get his numbers wrong just his phrase.  After reading on the BBC website it's 500k public sector workers, not 500k government workers (government workers are civil servants).

Erm, who is 'he' ? - I quoted 'David W' - you're username. You clearly stated that there are only 500 000 government workers. However the DWP employs that number of staff alone. If I were to believe what you said then there would be no civil service left! Then you have staff in other departments etc. I'm also well aware of what a civil servant is - as said above I've worked for the DWP years ago.
Do I really promote myself as being that thick? - That people have to explain to me what I've already explained to them? - Seriously please do tell me because I'm getting fed up of it.
The rest of your post I can agree with. I think frankly making such strong cuts however is a knee jerk reaction. Nothing wrong with trimming back gradually over time however with the politicians we have at the moment they'll always do the exact opposite of the others... although I suppose when we have an 'opposition' its hardly surprising. Parliament needs to wake up and realise that this is the 21st century. They can't all carry on like old fuddy duddys anymore. It might of bodgingly worked in history but it won't now in this day and age.
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alanb
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Re: 4 more examples of "what a stupid country we live in "

Quote from: David
AFAIK there are only 500,000 government workers so cutting it down to only 10,000 = impossible.  

In the last week or so, media outlets have reported figures for total public sector employment that vary between 5 million and 6 million. A reduction by 490,000 employees represents a cut of roughly 8% to 10%. The media has also reported that annual staff turnover in the public sector is around 8%. So a 490,000 reduction should not be difficult to achieve over a period of 4 to 5 years, even allowing for the possibility of a significant part of turnover being due to people moving between different public sector jobs.
We've seen an unprecedented growth in the size of the public sector since 1997, so it is hardly surprising that an unprecedented reduction is happening now that times are tough and different political masters rule the roost. What worries me most about this is the quality of the people who will be lost, versus the quality of people that will stay in the public sector. Very often during upheavals like this will undoubtedly be, the most capable people move on because they can.
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Re: 4 more examples of "what a stupid country we live in "

You're absolutely right alanb - the good staff leave for better jobs and the ones left are those that are incapable of bettering themselves. 
alanb
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Re: 4 more examples of "what a stupid country we live in "

Though I have to say that I wouldn't put it as strongly or as starkly as that artmo.
There are plenty of people who are happy to stay in the same job for years, doing it well, and enjoying doing it. I think it does not necessarilly follow that are incapable of bettering themselves.
thisoldman
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Re: 4 more examples of "what a stupid country we live in "

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Re: 4 more examples of "what a stupid country we live in "

Please don't confuse local government and the civil service. LG officers pay for their pensions, and don't get any of the perks enjoyed by the civil service.
As to the people being employed by the government being (by implication) second best, that may be true in some cases, but many public servant posts have no private sector equivalents, (I'm a Trading standards Officer, yes there are "TS consultants" out there, but they can't - by law- do my job) and in my experience, many public servants do their thankless jobs because they want to serve the public. There are lots of reasons why people continue to work in the public sector, and lack of ambition is only true in some cases (and lack of ambition doesn't necessarily mean that a person is less equipped to do a good job)
Finally, although I get the tax point, I'm afraid it's simplistic and a tad narrow in it's implications.  Isn't it just as strong an argument to say that people in the private sector pay for the privilege of belonging to society purely in monetary terms, while public servants support financially (yes they do pay some of their income in tax), but also support practically through the work they do.  They generally have lower wages (some of which they pay in taxes), and the work they do is for the good of society.
By all means get rid of all public servants - and everything thisoldman has said would certainly come true. Not only the end of our society, but the end of civilisation in this country. No law enforcement, no health care (free at point of use), no street cleaning, no care for the elderly or children (as of right), defence of our borders? no, customs? forget it. Immigration control? what immigration control and so on ...
John
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Re: 4 more examples of "what a stupid country we live in "

Hulls, you have any advice on dodgy mechanics?
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Re: 4 more examples of "what a stupid country we live in "

Don't use them ?  Wink
Depends on the individual facts.  You could try getting advice from Consumer Direct on 08454 04 05 06 (one of those pesky quangos that we all want to get rid of - after all, all they do is provide free consumer advice to all)
John