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38 Degrees - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

Midnight_Caller
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38 Degrees - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

Hi All
Just got this from 38 Degrees:
Quote
Dear,
Right now, officials in the US and EU are secretly negotiating a hugely influential and dangerous
trade deal which would put the profits of big business ahead of our welfare, health and
environment. [1]
It's called the "Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership", or "TTIP" for short, but in
reality it's more like a Christmas-list for big business. The negotiations are shrouded in
secrecy, but leaked details suggest the deal will:
- Allow companies to sue governments if they make decisions which negatively affect big business'
potential profits (like capping energy prices, or introducing plain packet cigarettes.) [2]
- Stop future governments from rolling back privatisation of our public services, such as the NHS,
energy companies, or the Post Office. [3]
- Relax the rules which protect consumers, our environment, our welfare and health services, to
much weaker US levels. [4]
38 Degrees members have a strong track record of standing up to big business and government. If we
decide to, we have a chance to stop this agreement in its tracks - derailing the negotiations and
making sure the things we care most about are protected.
Should we launch a campaign to stop the irreversible damage which the deal threatens? Please vote
now:
If yes, please click here: https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/TTIP-poll-YES
If no, please click here: https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/TTIP-poll-NO
Increased trade would create some jobs, and could boost the UK economy - but critics have been
scathing of the cost and size of these benefits. However, with the economy a key election issue
for both David Cameron and Barack Obama, they've decided to stake their reputations on the deal.
[5]
It's not going to be an easy campaign to win - but it is possible. Especially as we'd be joining
lots of people and campaigners across the world who've already sprung into action.
Should we join the fight?  The 38 Degrees staff team sit down every Monday morning to plan out the
week ahead and decide on how we use staff resources. The most important factor when making those
decisions is what 38 Degrees members think. 
Vote now to decide whether or not we should launch a big campaign. Yes or No?
If yes, please click here: https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/TTIP-poll-YES
If no, please click here: https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/TTIP-poll-NO

Thanks for being involved,
Ian, Bryony, Blanche & the 38 Degrees team
NOTES
[1] World Development Movement: EU-US Trade Deal:
http://www.wdm.org.uk/food-and-hunger/eu-us-trade-deal-written-banks-banks
[2] The Guardian: The lies behind this transatlantic deal:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/02/transatlantic-free-trade-deal-regulation-by-law...
[3] Independent: NHS could be 'carved open' by US health profiteers:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/nhs-could-be-carved-open-by-...
[4] EurActiv: TTIP means trading away better regulation:
http://www.euractiv.com/sections/science-policymaking/ttip-means-trading-away-better-regulation-3014...
[5] Yahoo: TTIP: Politicians must stop misleading voters:
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ttip-politicians-must-stop-misleading-voters-fictional-figures-000100739.h...
Computer World UK: TTIP Update XXI;
http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/open-enterprise/2014/03/ttip-update-xxi/index.htm
17 REPLIES
nanotm
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Re: 38 Degrees - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

the EU / NAFTA....
its not exactly secret its been widely publicised that the UK is currently the only country that holds one out of all the EU countries, the negotiations are required because of all the noise about the UK leaving the EU and reverting to nothing more than a trading partner  with that economic block
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
WTF
Grafter
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Re: 38 Degrees - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

It's in no way secret!  It has been HUGE news for over a year. Cameron, Obama, the EU, EVERYONE has been going out of their way to publicise it  Roll eyes
It's also another great example of why it would be complete madness for the UK to leave the EU: this deal begins the process of merging the two of the biggest trading blocks in the world,  NAFTA and the EU, into a new entity with the size and power to stand up to the emerging Asian and African trading blocks.  All the trading blocks in this picture have strong protectionist instincts and histories of protectionism (it has been 25 years since the last successful free trade negotiation): any country outside of these blocks is basically ******.
The UK is currently in an amazing position as it leads the EU negotiating team.  That means we have immense influence over how this deal develops and consequently, the future of global trade.  If we leave the EU, not only do we instantly lose any influence whatsoever, we also leave ourselves alone in a world that is being carved up into increasing powerful trading blocks.  We'd be sitting on the sidelines along with a few developing countries, begging the these huge, powerful, highly protectionsist blocks to please notice us and to pretty please toss us a few scraps.
As for all those specific points: they sound precisely like things you'd see in any honest Tory or UKIP manifesto - if there were such things.
Thunderclap
Grafter
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Registered: 08-09-2008

Re: 38 Degrees - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

"The 38 Degrees staff team sit down every Monday morning to plan out the week ahead and decide on how we use staff resources. The most important factor when making those decisions is what 38 Degrees members think.  "
Cool Provided the membership are thinking the same as the 38D leadership?
It's all just another trendy urban middle-class waste of other people's money, neo-hippy social media project - a group delusion that you can affect the global dynamic by collecting Facebook followers. Naive or brain washed, no Tweet, viral campaign or million person march ever caused The System to judder on its axis.  America and the EU will make trade deals regardless of whatever the people @ Bethnal Green want - and the UK whether run by posh boys or commissars will be agreeing to America's unfair trade desires.
Want to really piss of America and the EU at the same time? The UK must quit the EU. Now that really is left field thinking.
jim:red Avoidance of swear filter removed mod:end
WTF
Grafter
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Re: 38 Degrees - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

Quote from: Thunderclap
The UK must quit the EU. Now that really is left field thinking

.. or not 'thinking' at all  Grin
Thunderclap
Grafter
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Registered: 08-09-2008

Re: 38 Degrees - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

Cool The EU exists for negotiating trade agreements... now there's a thought
Community Veteran
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Re: 38 Degrees - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

We have discussed this on the forums before. It was announced that all parties to the agreement expect it to be signed before the end of this year.
Midnight_Caller
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Re: 38 Degrees - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

Hi All
Just in from 38 Degrees
[quote="38 Degrees"]
Urgent: Businesses holding us to ransom
Dear,
Do you want to live in a world in which multinational corporations can sue the UK government for
raising the minimum wage? [1] Or how about a world where big tobacco companies can sue the UK for
billions of pounds for introducing a plain cigarette packaging law? [2]
Scarily, this could happen if TTIP - the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership - is
passed. It's basically a Christmas wish-list for big businesses - one with no benefit to ordinary
people. Right now, the negotiations are going on behind closed doors. But the devastating
consequences will affect us all. We have an opportunity - but only for the next 48 hours - to stop
one of the worst parts of the deal.
Thanks to massive people-powered campaigns across Europe, the TTIP negotiating team opened a
consultation on the Investor-To-State Dispute Settlement - ISDS. It's a complex name that covers
up a nasty rule that'll let corporations sue our government for putting their duty to ordinary
people before businesses' profits. [3]
Together, we need to do all we can to get ISDS dropped from the deal - but the consultation closes
in just 48 hours time. This is the first time ordinary people like us will have a chance to have a
say on any part of TTIP. Let's make sure the negotiating team gets the message loud and clear - we
don't want big businesses to dictate laws to our government.
We only have two days left. So far the negotiating team has only heard from shady lobbyists. We
need to tell them why this deal is terrible for ordinary people. The consultation doesn't accept
identical entries so we each need to write our own. But you don't need to be an expert. And there
are tips to help you on the web page. Just click the link below to write in:
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/EU-TTIP-Consultation
We know that when thousands of us feed into consultations, we're too powerful to ignore. Just last
week, the UK government went back on its plans to privatise child protection services after 70,000
38 Degrees members fed into their consultation. [4] When we take part in consultations like this,
we create waves.
The TTIP team is vulnerable right now. Just this month the US embassy in Berlin offered grants of
$20,000 for campaigns in support of TTIP! [5] So this is a perfect time to show them how united we
are in our opposition. And we'll be in good company - we'll be joining hundreds of thousands of
voices across Europe who have already spoken out against the deal.
The consultation closes in just two days. It won't take long to write into it. Please click here
to email the TTIP team now.
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/EU-TTIP-Consultation

Thanks for being involved,
Bryony, Megan, Blanche, James & the 38 Degrees team

P.S Thanks so much to the thousands of 38 Degrees members who chipped in to fund a massive
people-powered ad campaign to raise public awareness of TTIP. The ad designs are being worked out
right now so they're as good as possible. If you haven't chipped in yet, but would like to help
buy as many posters and billboards as possible, you can donate here:
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/TTIP-Ad-Fundraiser
Notes:
[1] Touchstone: Special courts for foreign investors have no place in trade deals:
http://touchstoneblog.org.uk/2013/11/special-courts-for-foreign-investors-have-no-place-in-trade-dea...
[2] BBC: Philip Morris sues Australia over cigarette packaging:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-15815311
[3] Independent: British sovereignty 'at risk' from EU-US trade deal: UK in danger of surrendering
judicial independence to multinational corporations:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-sovereignty-at-risk-from-euus-trade-deal-uk-in...
[4] 38 Degrees Blog: Yes. We did it!
http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/tag/child-protection-services/
[5] EurActiv: US embassy in Berlin sparks TTIP twitter tangle
http://www.euractiv.com/sections/trade-industry/us-embassy-berlin-sparks-ttip-twitter-tangle-302869


nanotm
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Re: 38 Degrees - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

it wont make a jot of difference to the trade deal, the house frau is in favour of signing it so the rest of the dogs will wag ther tails and obey her wishes, so desperate is the EU to remove its dependency on the UK for US/EU trade (our NFTA doesn't have such stupid clauses)
just another reason to get out of the EU and return to being a sovereign nation (which already holds multiple FTA's around the globe that the EU cannot even hope to get such favourable terms on)
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
WTF
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Re: 38 Degrees - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

Quote from: nanotm
just another reason to get out of the EU and return to being a sovereign nation (which already holds multiple FTA's around the globe that the EU cannot even hope to get such favourable terms on)

Saaaaaay wut?!
The EU and the NAFTA countries are essentially joining together to form the world's largest, most powerful trade group so we should .. leave?!  Shocked
How does that work?
That's so dumb they'd have to start a Darwin Awards for Countries especially for us  Grin
nanotm
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Re: 38 Degrees - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

the Eu isn't getting a NAFTA its getting some weird unhinged version of a corporate gravy train that rivals there one created by the EUP.
the UK has had a NAFTA for decades, one that doesn't provide for economic suicide (unlike this strange thing the EU are creating)
you might be so pro EU that you cant see the wood for the trees but that doesn't make you clever ......
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Midnight_Caller
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Re: 38 Degrees - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

Update from 38 Degrees
Quote
Are EU officials using 'technical problems' as an excuse not to listen to ordinary people across Europe?
Dear,
Last Thursday, tens of thousands of 38 Degrees members fed into an EU consultation on TTIP - the trade deal that would enshrine privatisation of the NHS and allow big corporations to sue our government. But the numbers of us writing in caused 'technical problems' and their site crashed.
25,000 submissions were saved by the office team while the site was down. We've asked them to accept these responses in bulk, but they've refused. They'll have to be re-entered, one by-one.  [1]
The TTIP team seemed shocked by how strongly we feel. They obviously hadn't expected so many of the public to feed into their public consultation. They extended the consultation deadline - but we only have a few days left until it closes for good.
Can you add your voice to the consultation before it closes? We've only got until Sunday. Will you tell the negotiating team that you don't think corporations should be able to sue governments?
Click here to write to the TTIP team. There are tips on the page that will help you with what to say - it should only take a couple of minutes to email them:
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/EU-TTIP-Consultation
Thanks for being involved,
Megan, Blanche, Bryony, James & the 38 Degrees team

PS: Together, we can prove that the huge public interest which crashed their website wasn't a fluke. And the sooner the better, in case their website breaks again. Click here to write in to the consultation:
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/EU-TTIP-Consultation
NOTES:
[1] 38 Degrees: TTIP: EU consultation:
http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/2014/07/10/ttip-eu-consultation/
In case you missed it, here's the original email from last week:
WTF
Grafter
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Re: 38 Degrees - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

Quote from: nanotm
the Eu isn't getting a NAFTA its getting some weird unhinged version of a corporate gravy train that rivals there one created by the EUP.
the UK has had a NAFTA for decades, one that doesn't provide for economic suicide (unlike this strange thing the EU are creating)

Undecided
You do know that NAFTA stands for the North American Free Trade Agreement and that it only has three signatories, the US, Canada and Mexico?
So .. the UK categorically does NOT have 'a NAFTA' and of course, the EU doesn't have one either Roll eyes
And do you have any evidence for ANY of your wild assertions about the prospective EU/NAFTA deal?
Actually, dumb question: of course you don't because they're complete and utter rubbish.
The deal is all about increasing trade between the EU and NAFTA and has already been agreed in principal.  The current - UK led - negotiations are around details like how to bring EU and NAAFTA regulations into line to facilitate trade.  The idea is to make it possible for goods produced for the European market to be sold, unchanged in the US market and vice versa.  Something that's not possible at the minute because of differences in regulation.
Once these changes are agreed, just like current EU and NAFTA regulation affects ALL trade between ANY country and members of those groupings, the joint regulations will affect ALL trade between ANY country and members of the new agreement, i.e. even if the UK was not part of the EU it would STILL have to conform with the new regulations in order to trade with any countries in the new EU/NAFTA grouping.
The only difference is that we'd first have to join a long queue - of trade groupings and those few, individual countries that remain outside a grouping - to negotiate a trade deal with the new EU/NAFTA grouping.  Which could take years.
Community Veteran
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Re: 38 Degrees - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

@WFT, you are right in your comments. a deal has been agreed in principal and documents are being signed between NAFTA and EU at the end of this year. This date has been in the diaries for a few months now.
Quote
And do you have any evidence for ANY of your wild assertions about the prospective EU/NAFTA deal?

Ha, Ha!! you reached your own conclusion on that one Wink
nanotm
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Re: 38 Degrees - Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/02/transatlantic-free-trade-deal-regulation-by-law...
as to the nafta who cares if I used the wrong terminology there is and has been a series of agreements in place since 1946 between the US the UK and several other countries to allow for trade just because they changed the name of the committee responsible for policing them in 95 doesn't change the fact they exist and that the EU as a trade group doesn't yet hold such an agreement hence why they are in negotiations to create a new EU wide agreement.
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you