cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

10 lies we're told about welfare

Community Veteran
Posts: 6,773
Thanks: 259
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎16-02-2009

Re: 10 lies we're told about welfare

There is a LIMIT on how far you can cut your food budget. When you are already on the Value/Own Brand/WHY then where do you go from there? Stop eating?? My fuel bills for the house are £90/month mostly due to the gov spending billions of £'s on waste energy (like wind farms/solar) that don't produce when we need it. We are ALL subsidising the fuel generation companies in this respect. Why pay them 34p/unit for solar electric that is then sold at 12p????
The systems all need a shake up but it will never happen until we revolt like Iceland and chuck out the whole government  Wink and all the bankers.
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,691
Thanks: 850
Fixes: 12
Registered: ‎01-08-2007

Re: 10 lies we're told about welfare

Quote from: Hairy
There is a LIMIT on how far you can cut your food budget. When you are already on the Value/Own Brand/WHY then where do you go from there?

Exactly and this is a point many people fail to understand. Many of the poorest in this country are ALREADY on the minimum price products and simply cannot find an even cheaper way to survive. This is something the rich don't understand as they don't have to do it themselves.
EG:
Kingsmill bread: £1.12
Supermarket bread: 78p
Super value cheap bread: 48p.
If you're already buying the 48p stuff and the same equivalents with your beans, eggs, peas etc, how do you buy even cheaper and save money when you're already budgeting to the max? It simply can't be done and so many people fail to understand that.
Quote from: Hairy
The systems all need a shake up but it will never happen until we revolt like Iceland and chuck out the whole government  Wink and all the bankers.

The trouble is that won't happen and when it almost did a year or two back, the state was very quick to clamp down on it and bring prosecutions against people. In essence, we have no voice anymore apart from at voting time and even then so many people have lost hope of making a difference that they don't bother and we end up with a hung parliament.
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,251
Thanks: 413
Registered: ‎12-08-2007

Re: 10 lies we're told about welfare

Quote from: Sprite

No I simply suggested that the DWP is known for playing with their numbers. Someone else also pointed out that your source (being a tabloid) was also probably less than realistic.

My figures came from the Sunday Times - since when has that been a tabloid Undecided  The same figures have also been printed by other newspapers and also featured on a BBC discussion at the weekend. (I am aware Sprite didn't make the statement).
kmilburn
Grafter
Posts: 910
Thanks: 3
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: 10 lies we're told about welfare

One of the biggest parts of the system that needs a correction is house and rental prices.
If the government (labour at the time) had let the housing market crash, as it should have, prices would be significantly lower than they are now,  which would benefit almost everyone.
And while people are moaning about benfits being capped to 1%, if I hadn't changed job a couple of years ago,  I wouldn't have had a single pay rise for the last 5 years  (effectively a 14% cut in real terms)
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,691
Thanks: 850
Fixes: 12
Registered: ‎01-08-2007

Re: 10 lies we're told about welfare

Quote from: artmo
Quote from: Sprite

No I simply suggested that the DWP is known for playing with their numbers. Someone else also pointed out that your source (being a tabloid) was also probably less than realistic.

My figures came from the Sunday Times - since when has that been a tabloid Undecided  The same figures have also been printed by other newspapers and also featured on a BBC discussion at the weekend. (I am aware Sprite didn't make the statement).

Fair point artmo, 'broadsheet' then  Wink
Either way DWP can alter its statistics in many different ways. Thats why I'd be reluctant to read too much into the numbers that you quoted. It's nothing personal, I've just seen the way they do things many times before.
Quote from: kmilburn
One of the biggest parts of the system that needs a correction is house and rental prices.
If the government (labour at the time) had let the housing market crash, as it should have, prices would be significantly lower than they are now,  which would benefit almost everyone.

I do agree with that but at the same time, do you not remember the terrible disaster in the 80s where so many people lost their homes? Ok, you could argue that they should never have overstretched themselves (and in fairness I agree with that) but you had innocent children being caught up in it all too. While I agree the banks should have not been bailed out, ultimately they would have sucked blood from their customers just like the banks in cyprus are doing.
What needs to change is how the housing market works full stop. Why are estate agents (who anyone can setup as with no qualifications) allowed to pluck a number out of thin air for a house? - All that happens is they all have a silent understanding to raise prices bit by bit together every month and it becomes a runaway market. I've seen FLATS advertised at over £100k - yes, one bedroom FLATS. It's madness.
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,251
Thanks: 413
Registered: ‎12-08-2007

Re: 10 lies we're told about welfare

Do you have any facts to backup your claim that the statistics are massaged? How would you gather information on which to make decisions on the welfare budget?
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,691
Thanks: 850
Fixes: 12
Registered: ‎01-08-2007

Re: 10 lies we're told about welfare

Something in writing? No.
artmo it's common knowledge that benefits claimants move from one benefit to another and it happens frequently. No government will ever really crack down and leave people with absolutely nothing. Admittedly this bunch are doing a good job of unsettling people but they'll never completely destroy the welfare system to the point where 800k people just suddenly stop claiming for no apparent reason. You're threatening to push people off incap and people start bricking it. What do you think they might do? - If it were me I'd be looking to switch to income support or JSA (and yes I know they're being / have been renamed but you get the idea) just to escape the dreaded chop and hassle of incap.
If you ask me, you're more likely to loose 800k people through natural death, people getting married, retirement, change of circumstances, even suicide (which lets face it in tough times, always goes up). Then you have the entitlement changes (which have also no doubt played a large part) and thats another few thousand instantly gone from the books too.
British governments are known for changing the rules as it suits them. Just look at last year when they threatened to suspend that law on foreign embassies so that they could get assange out 'legally'  :crazy:
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,251
Thanks: 413
Registered: ‎12-08-2007

Re: 10 lies we're told about welfare

..............but income support and JSA have not increased so what's happened to the 800k people Undecided
Devonian
Grafter
Posts: 1,854
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎01-05-2011

Re: 10 lies we're told about welfare

Selling drugs in the park to children probably.
VileReynard
Champion
Posts: 11,847
Thanks: 456
Fixes: 17
Registered: ‎01-09-2007

Re: 10 lies we're told about welfare

If you should manage to accumulate any savings, put them in a shoe box.
The Dole Office will reduce your benefit (if any) if you declare them.

"In The Beginning Was The Word, And The Word Was Aardvark."

Community Veteran
Posts: 6,773
Thanks: 259
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎16-02-2009

Re: 10 lies we're told about welfare

Quote from: artmo
..............but income support and JSA have not increased so what's happened to the 800k people Undecided

They are possibly in the same situation I am in, they don't qualify for any benefits so don't count  Shocked
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,032
Fixes: 62
Registered: ‎15-06-2007

Re: 10 lies we're told about welfare

I really wasn't sure where to post this but here goes http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9970619/Unemployed-Mick-Philpott-on-100000-a-year-salar...
Quote
Unemployed Mick Philpott, who killed his six children in an arson attack, was receiving the equivalent of a £100,000 a year salary in benefits and wages.
<snip>
He was receiving £20.30 a week child benefit for the eldest of the 11 children in the house and £13.40 each for the others, according to the Times, making £8,023.60 a year tax free.
According to Revenue and Customs, Mairead, with six children, would be entitled to £20,560 in tax credits and Miss Willis to up to £17,870 totalling £38,430, also tax free.
Therefore he could have been receiving £46,453 in benefits
Housing benefit also paid his £7,800 a year rent on his Derby home, which along with the money he got from both his partners cleaning jobs, could have taken his “income” to almost £68,000 – the equivalent of a £100,000 salary after tax.
This would have put Philpott in the top two per cent of earners.
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,773
Thanks: 259
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎16-02-2009

Re: 10 lies we're told about welfare

As I said earlier baby factories :crazy:
The AVERAGE salary round here is <£25K  Lips_are_sealed So why work if you can have kids and get the gov keep you  :crazy:
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,251
Thanks: 413
Registered: ‎12-08-2007

Re: 10 lies we're told about welfare

Disgraceful - I hope the prison authorities see he doesn't get any privileges inside. Very sad about the children.
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,691
Thanks: 850
Fixes: 12
Registered: ‎01-08-2007

Re: 10 lies we're told about welfare

The problem with the philpotts is that they're being used as an example to screw over others on benefits.
I grew up as an only child with a parent on benefits. Life was very hard. I never had much, never had anything in common with other kids etc. As I understand it Philpott wasn't the type of bloke to spend money on his kids and even if he did I doubt it went far.
I think there is a danger of using him to spark a witch hunt against the vulnerable and it is wrong. Yes the murder of those children was absolutely sickening but it doesn't mean everyone else on benefits should be tarred with the same brush.
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!