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P2P games

Blim
Grafter
Posts: 462
Registered: 06-03-2012

P2P games

As some of you might know I'm having problems with my connection atm witch is an intermittent problem, meaning its not all the time and not always in peak times too. This isn't the point to my post but Id like you highlight the fact I'm aware of the problem as it happens and avoid playing at those times of high ping.

Ok so I just what to ask others how they find P2P games in regards to hit detection vs dedicated server hosted / full server side hit registration games.
Do you feel like you have massive disadvantage? Do you feel like low ping is to blame?
I read a lot of other peoples opinions and most are very mixed but a lot of people believe P2P games give an advantage to high latency players when low ping vs high. I've watch a video with two players (split screen) both have 15ms ping and the time delay was almost 1.5 seconds between the two clients. one person makes an action and the time its takes for the other client to see it.
Ive done similar test my self with a dedicated server/fully server side hit reg based game (ut2004) and found the delay to only be about half a second.
But my main point is that some people defiantly  have an advantage in P2P games and Id really like to understand why.
Dose anyone have anything to add or would like to comment on a recent experience that affected your game play?
7 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,181
Thanks: 19
Fixes: 2
Registered: 31-07-2007

Re: P2P games

A number of reasons.
Is it hosted on a paid for dedicated server or more likely player hosted on their lan/on the same pc as they are playing or worse a console.  Player hosted will always have the advantage as they have the lowest ping and can cheat.  While hosting they can run a stream in background to cripple the bandwidth that everyone has available except for them.  On average if it is a FPS and you decide to host, you need 15kB/s per player both up and down.
Plus they could be on a over subscribed cable network, which basically does the same.  They share the connection with  the whole street and or area they are on/in, so come a busy night and everyone is online they loose a fair chunk of their connection speed and so bandwidth.
Does the game use Lag/Ping Compensation.  Can't get around it you just have to put up with it or not buy from that software house till they see its not wanted
Is someone running a bot, they add server load and if its on a crappy machine that will affect the game.
The days of Epic/Atari running dedicated servers for years at a time are long gone, now they churn out the next FPS clone as its easier to make a new game than keep up with the idiots that cheat with bots, who do exactly what you describe
When i first got ADSL in 2001, I thought that will be the end of the lan meets that happened locally, but can see them coming back just to stop the idiots that think its their right to uses bots to cripple the server and make people leave it
But also the changes that PN made last December as I predicted, made gaming a nightmare on top of the normal busy internet nights when its just not worth being online in a game.
Unvalued customer since 2001 funding cheap internet for others / DSL/Fibre house move 24 month regrade from 8th May 2017
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 4,890
Thanks: 164
Fixes: 3
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: P2P games

Quote from: Gus
But also the changes that PN made last December as I predicted, made gaming a nightmare on top of the normal busy internet nights when its just not worth being online in a game.

Nothing we've done should cause that.  We've got loads of capacity really.  I suspect that what you are seeing may be related to http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,111170.msg972811.html#msg972811 but it will be hard to tell.
Blim
Grafter
Posts: 462
Registered: 06-03-2012

Re: P2P games

Kelly, do you have any idea why every P2P game I play seems to give me an disadvantage over others. I noticed they don't always need to have a higher ping than me. Could it have anything to do with the way P2P the traffic is dealt with or the fact its not one connection to a server but a connection per player in the game? I always play in uk servers. Its a long shot but living on the Isle could have anything to do with it?
Razer
Grafter
Posts: 1,375
Registered: 17-11-2012

Re: P2P games

I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about, but I think I might know. I have only relatively recently started playing online multi-player with Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood, so much of what is talked about with online gaming (terminology etc. is completely alien to me). What has become apparent to me is that it is the players who host games, and that the game maker's servers simply connect them up, tell each who is or is not online and requesting matches. This is what I think you might mean by P2P gaming.
From this standpoint it has become apparent to me that this set-up poses disadvantages because I can end up with some very laggy hosters. It has also become apparent to me, as GUS has talked about, that there are certain cheaters who to my mind are purposely introducing lag for their own advantage. Maybe I am being unfair but this is what it looks like to me. I see these same players time and again, and when they are hosting there is always terrible lag as they run around like speedy Gonzales, appearing from one spot on the map and miraculously jumping to another as if warping (or even being completely invisible for the whole match), and slaughtering everyone, winning the matches over and over. Often when they are not hosting and I end up in a match with them, they do not fare so well, or even simply come last, which tells me a lot about their actual skill. (I also happen to notice certain players helping one another out, or apparently using shill accounts to trap (these are often so VERY obvious) and spoiling free-for-all gameplay, in my view, but that's another matter.)
I have no experience of playing online with a dedicated server, but I would like to see the difference because I think it would eliminate the cheaters - at least in the way I've seen it done with P2P.
Akira
Grafter
Posts: 42
Registered: 28-02-2013

Re: P2P games

@Razer
Don't quote me but I think Assassins Creed (multiplayer) runs on dedicated servers. I think.
@Blim
I must admit mate, I haven't really had any problems with hit detection. However, since Epic Games turned off the dedicated servers for Gears of War 3, I have noticed, how do I put this, the multiplayer feels...sluggish. But that's not Plusnets error.
Smiley
Razer
Grafter
Posts: 1,375
Registered: 17-11-2012

Re: P2P games

I say I think it's P2P because that's what my logs look like. At least, that's what I guess the reason is for what appears in my logs: The only connections logged (apart from a basic connection to the game servers) are when I am in slot 1, then each other player goes in the subsequent slots and various data is logged, including their username and IP address, of course. That implies, to my mind, that I am hosting (for why else would it be so structured and why would my computer need to keep a tab of that information?). Other games I have when I see I am not in slot one are never logged - players or any of the other various data, so someone else must be hosting those games. I don't know, maybe it doesn't mean that. I am inexperienced in this after all. It's just how I figure out some sense of what seems to be.
Blim
Grafter
Posts: 462
Registered: 06-03-2012

Re: P2P games

@Akira, I wasn't suggesting it was PN. Sorry if that's how it sounded. I'll have to check and reword it.
I'm just trying to get a better understanding.
With me and I think I've sed this before, with MW3 or BF3 vs BO2. Now MW3 is client hosted but BF3 is server hosted but client side hit. Now I think MW3 is bad but not half as much as BF3 for hit registration. With BO2 I think its fully server hosted, so its server side hit too. I have no problems playing BO3, infarct I'm going to buy that game soon I liked it so much.
For me, when playing BF3 and being killed I'll only hear the sound of the gun firing after I'm dead. MW3 it's a 2 hit and I'm dead so at least I get to hear something before I get killed but still pointless because I cant react that fast still. Ive unloaded clips onto people in BF3 and they have killed me with full health as if to say not one bullet registered.
The way I see it is, with client side hit reg. There is no central point to defined time its self. This just cant work ever or at least not without added lag to confirm real-time with the server. With server side hit reg the server acts as time and any fluctuation in latency in a connection to the server can only effect the player with the defective link.