AS6453.net peering sucks

[#1]

@ Andy, yes but they peer directly with Tinet they don't need a 3rd party , and yes i'm aware that zen have data centres in more than one location , so they can peer at different points of their network , And level 3 should be able to have control how traffic gets routed on their network, if they don't then it's a ticking time bomb until something fails,
@ Dave, if i run a tracert to ubisoft gateway ubisoft-gw.ip4.tinet.net (Which is the gateway that traffic would most probably route to) whilst on a PTW gateway it goes from level 3 london on to tinet xe-1-2-0.mtl10.ip4.tinet.net MTL10.IP4.Tinet .net would appear to be located in Montreal according to Tinet's own looking Glass , Can traffic not take this path ?
Also the return path from ubi, if it is the same as when i tracert to my IP using the AS6453.net looking glass this route doesn't go Via Chicago where i believe the congestion is, (NewYork - Chicago ) And IMO the route would be better going level3 TATA/Tinet  than going via BT because via BT may further increase latency Which should be a priority  not to do that , plus they have had unknown issues in the recent past, we don't want to add inherited problems, they BT also don't peer directly with tinet

Target Name: ubisoft-gw.ip4.tinet.net
         IP: 173.241.128.42
  Date/Time: 25/03/2014 16:45:34 to 25/03/2014 16:46:56
Hop Sent Err  PL% Min Max Avg  Host Name / [IP]
 1    55   6 10.9   0   1   0  home.gateway.home.gateway [192.168.1.254]
 2    55   2  3.6  14 519  75  lo0-central10.ptw-ag01.plus.net [195.166.128.195]
 3    55   5  9.1  13  15  13  link-a-central10.ptw-gw01.plus.net [212.159.2.144]
 4    55   0  0.0  13  36  14  xe-4-2-0.ptw-cr01.plus.net [212.159.0.240]
 5    32   1  3.1  14 219  38  te-3-4.car5.London1.Level3.net [217.163.45.181]
 6    55   1  1.8  13  15  13  ae-51-51.csw1.London1.Level3.net [4.69.139.88]
 7    12   0  0.0  13  20  13  ae-121-3507.edge4.London1.Level3.net [4.69.166.9]
 8    55   2  3.6  13  21  13  GTT-level3-2x10G.London.Level3.net [4.68.111.26]
 9    55   0  0.0 147 321 180  xe-1-3-0.mtl10.ip4.tinet.net [89.149.184.74]
10    55   0  0.0  95 125  96  ubisoft-gw.ip4.tinet.net [173.241.128.42]

This would be ok if possible  look no Paris or Pcl and the only path changes going appear to be within level3's network

Tracing the route to lb-lsg-prod.ubisoft.com (216.98.48.56)
  1 t2c3-xe-1-3-1-0.uk-lon1.eu.bt.net (166.49.135.0) 0 msec 0 msec 0 msec
  2 213.248.82.249 [AS 1299] 0 msec 0 msec 4 msec
  3 ldn-bb2-link.telia.net (62.115.136.112) [AS 1299] 0 msec
    ldn-bb2-link.telia.net (213.155.137.118) [AS 1299] 4 msec
    ldn-bb2-link.telia.net (80.91.249.133) [AS 1299] 0 msec
  4 ldn-b3-link.telia.net (80.91.247.86) [AS 1299] 0 msec
    ldn-b3-link.telia.net (80.91.249.170) [AS 1299] 0 msec
    ldn-b3-link.telia.net (80.91.247.27) [AS 1299] 0 msec
  5 ae4.lon21.ip4.tinet.net (141.136.99.241) [AS 3257] 0 msec 4 msec 0 msec
  6 xe-4-2-0.mtl10.ip4.tinet.net (141.136.107.125) [AS 3257] 80 msec 84 msec 80 msec
  7 ubisoft-gw.ip4.tinet.net (173.241.128.42) [AS 3257] !A  *  * 

Is the only BT  tracert  i can create from london using their looking glass , which at this point in time  is on a par with some other's , question is  do their links or telia.net's become saturated

[#2]

Yeah, hopefully we can sort out the best path from our side through to them via Level3, ops are looking at that for us, spoke to them this afternoon about it. We'll not look at taking the BT route unless we think that's the best course of action. Will let you know when they've had chance to look at the change and give you an indication of when they can do it.

[#3]

Ok, thank's for that,this may well turn out being a case of trial & error, unless the information needed can be collated properly before changes are made. I would assume that it maybe , but that info doesn't get passed down to the customer as they think we don't need to know, or is that they would rather us not know,lol

[#4]

Quote from: dave

Our realistic options are AS2856 -> AS5400 (BT) or Level3 (via Tinet or Tata). We have an advantage on the Level3 routing in that traffic from our PCL core routers always goes via Tinet and from Telehouse always goes via the Tata (I think I have them the right way round)

@Dave I have been on PCL gateways in the past. and the route was via paris level3 back to london again before it went on to TATA as6453.net  to ubisoft, (Unless this got changed  a very short time ago)
So i think the difference is  as Andy has said  PCL gateway traffic gets routed  in a strange fashion by level 3  where as the traffic from PTW  gateways seems to get routed in a direct straightforward manner again onto TATA , I must of missed  that bit,

Any update on progress on this dave?

[#5]

Well it will soon be 5 mths  since i started this thread  as yet another week draws to a close without any solution insight

[#6]

Did you try contacting Ubisoft to see what they say?

[#7]

Try contacting who at ubisoft, their useless p poor excuse of support? Then yes  the support that thinks everything revolves around  uplay, and maybe  I have BT infinty, ( connection problems )but keeps asking about uplay regardless of being told that i was not a BT retail customer , and i was able to connect to the ubi main site and log in to my account fine,????
It  also took me 4 attempts to make their robot  realise that the game was published a long time before they  developed their  bloat ware Uplay  & therefore does not use it, and the problem wasn't with the game or my PC
And then it enters script mode again , asking for MS info and dxdiag  reports  and eventually  concedes with a fob off reply saying that all he can do is pass the info on to the relevant people just  like they did back last year, guess what they still haven't  done anything
Which of course is the end of their support, nothing gets passed on, if it does  who ever sees it does nothing to fix the problem , So why waste my time and bandwidth dealing with those idiots?

[#8]

The only reason I ask is they should be in the best position to make the changes (from the sounds of things, it would be a lot easier if Ubisoft and Tinet announced a new route for Plusnet to use Tinet London). I would imagine you might get a different response if you are forwarded to one of the networking operation guys at Ubisoft. Someone must be able to clarify things about the routing.
I also think that if the routing is changed as you want and your latency is back to 90ms (which I think is going to be very unlikely given latency from the Tinet London core router > Ubisoft has increased to 88-90ms in the past week), then you might have a new problem with packet loss and ping spikes. I know I am looking at different TBB Graph IPs to your gaming server. But if the same kind of performance is replicated on your gaming server, then you are still going to have a lot of problems. This is why I think it would be useful to find who to speak to within Ubisoft about networking problems that will give you a proper answer.

[#9]

Andy,  i doubt it could be any worse, The Tata route gets ping spikes so nothing new there, Ubi should peer with more than 2 providers, they should have game servers located in  more than 1 location  these are examples of how inept  or that they really dont care one bit, once you have bought their games
,As for ubi , lol  they do not care about their customers, as for forwarding  anything to anyone at ubisoft  without  going via their support which fails everytime, or an expensive call to France, which would probably result in nothing more than a waste of my money as well as my time, because they don't have anything here in the uk apart from an office,  
Besides, they won't be setting up different peering  for  one person, as said they don't give a dam, they never have, they happily take your money, and then don't care about  supporting their games/customers properly, they have gotten away with this for years, because the laws that are supposed to protect consumers  from scum like ubisoft fail the consumer both in the uk and other countries, and for as long as they can get away with this they will, As a result i will never buy another game published by ubisoft, but unfortunately  there is no shortage of people who will continue to line ubisoft's pockets , they will watch ubi's game trailers and  are somehow then brainwashed by the lies within

[#10]

Well this last week is turning into a long week,or is it  another month and nothing gets changed ?

[#11]

Target Name: lb-lsg-prod.ubisoft.com
         IP: 216.98.48.56
  Date/Time: 03/04/2014 19:47:09 to 03/04/2014 20:48:59
Hop Sent Err  PL% Min   Max Avg  Host Name / [IP]
 1   998 545 54.6   0 31325  69  home.gateway.home.gateway [192.168.1.254]
 2   355   0  0.0  21   342  37  lo0-central10.ptn-ag01.plus.net [195.166.128.190]
 3   355   0  0.0  20    51  22  link-b-central10.ptn-gw02.plus.net [212.159.2.130]
 4   355   0  0.0  20    79  29  xe-5-2-0.ptw-cr02.plus.net [212.159.0.106]
 5   107   0  0.0  21    84  22  ae2.ptw-cr01.plus.net [195.166.129.4]
 6    93   1  1.1  21    25  21  ae1.pcl-cr01.plus.net [195.166.129.1]
 7   334   0  0.0  21   101  24  xe-11-2-0.edge3.London2.Level3.net [212.187.201.213]
 8   353   0  0.0  27    65  29  vl-3201-ve-128.ebr2.London2.Level3.net [4.69.202.177]
 9    74   0  0.0  28    31  28  ae-44-44.ebr1.Paris1.Level3.net [4.69.159.94]
10   301   0  0.0  27    57  29  ae-91-91.csw4.Paris1.Level3.net [4.69.161.90]
11    69   0  0.0  28    71  29  ae-1-60.edge5.Paris1.Level3.net [4.69.168.8]
12   354   0  0.0  27    62  29  ae5.par22.ip4.tinet.net [141.136.103.181]
13    80   5  6.3 164   249 189  xe-7-3-0.mtl10.ip4.tinet.net [141.136.106.106]
14   109   0  0.0 111   285 136  ubisoft-gw.ip4.tinet.net [173.241.128.42]
15   108   0  0.0 110   158 129  msr-onl-fw01.ubisoft.com [216.98.51.10]
16   998 892 89.4 111   205 136  lb-lsg-prod.ubisoft.com [216.98.48.56]

PARIS is causing lagg and wild fluctuations  as high as 170ms  why are they routing it via Paris When they route other ISP's traffic directly?  The Level 3 hops are continually swapping around causing these spikes  that would be a total nightmare  to try and play online games  with ,
This wasn't any sort of fix, just a swap of gateway and to add to this whole mess sodding BT DLM has added interleave More lagg  how can that  openreach speed dlm  profile be aimed at gamers, ????

Target Name: lb-lsg-prod.ubisoft.com
         IP: 216.98.48.56
  Date/Time: 03/04/2014 20:35:19 to 03/04/2014 21:01:27
Hop Sent Err  PL% Min   Max Avg  Host Name / [IP]
 1   986 122 12.4   0 31325  36  home.gateway.home.gateway [192.168.1.254]
 2   986   0  0.0  21   343  29  lo0-central10.ptn-ag01.plus.net [195.166.128.190]
 3   986   0  0.0  20    49  21  link-b-central10.ptn-gw02.plus.net [212.159.2.130]
 4   986   0  0.0  20    70  39  xe-5-2-0.ptw-cr02.plus.net [212.159.0.106]
 5   703   0  0.0  21    90  24  ae2.ptw-cr01.plus.net [195.166.129.4]
 6   420   3  0.7  20    71  21  ae2.pcl-cr01.plus.net [195.166.129.6]
 7   730   0  0.0  21   101  22  xe-11-2-0.edge3.London2.Level3.net [212.187.201.213]
 8   969   0  0.0  27    40  28  vl-3201-ve-128.ebr2.London2.Level3.net [4.69.202.177]
 9   459   0  0.0  27    45  28  ae-44-44.ebr1.Paris1.Level3.net [4.69.159.94]
10   104   0  0.0  28    36  28  ae-71-71.csw2.Paris1.Level3.net [4.69.161.82]
11   395   1  0.3  27    71  28  ae-1-60.edge5.Paris1.Level3.net [4.69.168.8]
12   970   0  0.0  27    62  28  ae5.par22.ip4.tinet.net [141.136.103.181]
13   322   8  2.5 115   325 150  xe-4-2-0.mtl10.ip4.tinet.net [141.136.107.125]
14   797   3  0.4 110   285 134  ubisoft-gw.ip4.tinet.net [173.241.128.42]
15   783  55  7.0 110   218 128  msr-onl-fw01.ubisoft.com [216.98.51.10]
16   980 214 21.8 111   297 151  lb-lsg-prod.ubisoft.com [216.98.48.56]

[#12]

What's happening with your network though on the first hop?
The problem is not Level3 - even from Tinet London core router, pings are all over the place.

[#13]

I think it might have something to do with this - http://www.incapsula.com/blog/world-largest-site-xss-ddos-zombies.html Assuming they mean YouTube has the vulnerability.
Blizzard's European servers were DDoSed yesterday. Quite a few sites are being attacked this evening 

[#14]

Quote from: AndyH

What's happening with your network though on the first hop? The problem is not Level3 - even from Tinet London core router, pings are all over the place.

1st hop, i had just switched gateway, without restarting pp , so ping goes  to moon and back,lol  packet loss(hop 1) is a result of  pingplotter pinging other targets  as well as ubi

[#15]

I have to agree with you about Ubisoft - rather unhelpful support.