AS6453.net peering sucks
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- Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
24-03-2014 6:49 AM
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Quote from: deathtrap ....Your distraction tactics aren't working give up
Thats not a very constructive post deathtrap. From what I've read AndyH is just trying to offer an alternative viewpoint on the issue.
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
24-03-2014 7:16 AM
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To be fair, the problem could also have been Ubisoft's end last night.
I have three TBB monitors to Ubisoft IPs now. Whilst I appreciate that they are not the specific IP for the gaming server you use, they are still only Ubisoft addresses that can be monitored with ICMP pings. It is worrying that there is constant small level packet loss on all three TBB monitors. If this packet loss is also present on your lb-lsg-prod.ubisoft.com address, this will be far more disruptive to your gaming than an extra 10-20ms in latency due to the peer routing.
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
24-03-2014 12:32 PM
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Enterprise Architect - Network & OSS
Plusnet Technology
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
24-03-2014 2:41 PM
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Thank's for the update, although i'm not sure what /which provider you tried to set up peering over a new route with , As far as i'm aware Ubisoft have 2 peers TATA(as6453.net) and Tinet ,
Who was providing this new route ? The only big changes recently where when ubi hired verisign DDos protection services and all or nearly all ubi traffic appeared to get routed via their scrubbing centre , but this was thank fully only a temporary measure ,as it further increased the latency
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
24-03-2014 2:52 PM
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Enterprise Architect - Network & OSS
Plusnet Technology
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
24-03-2014 3:03 PM
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They have never spent money in ways that benefit their customers, unless they stand to gain too, and then any benefits to the customers would come last
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
24-03-2014 4:19 PM
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BTnet appear to route with Tinet for Ubisoft:
Quote BT Global Services: Looking Glass
Query: BGP Network
Router: United Kingdom - t2a1.uk-lon1
Address: 216.98.57.134
BGP routing table entry for 216.98.48.0/20, version 80732835
Bestpath Modifiers: deterministic-med
Paths: (2 available, best #2)
Advertised to update-groups:
1
2914 3257 22634
166.49.166.216 (metric 87) from 166.49.166.216 (166.49.165.216)
Origin IGP, metric 0, localpref 100, valid, internal
Community: 2914:420 2914:1203 2914:2201 2914:3200 5400:3001 5400:3003
1299 3257 22634
166.49.166.215 (metric 87) from 166.49.166.215 (166.49.165.215)
Origin IGP, metric 0, localpref 100, valid, internal, best
Community: 1299:20000 5400:3001 5400:3003
Would this mean if you were able to route with BTnet, then traffic to 216.98.48.0/20 (Ubisoft) would go via Tinet?
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
24-03-2014 4:39 PM
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Andy have you seen the latency to ubisoft from BT customers ? It's higher than what i'm seeing now even when it takes the same path Level 3 AS6453.net Not only this traffic may inherit any BT issues that we plusnet customers don't already have , So no thanks to your route traffic Via BT idea , that's not my idea of a solution ,
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
24-03-2014 5:04 PM
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All you need is for your traffic to go from Plusnet's network in London to Tinet's network in London - this cannot take more than a few ms irrespective of who carries the traffic there! Once your traffic is with one of Ubisoft's peers, Plusnet really do have zero control over it.
I am just wondering how Plusnet would be able to get your Ubisoft traffic from Level3 London to Tinet London because that does not appear to be an option for Level3 London according to their routing tables.
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
24-03-2014 6:00 PM
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Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
24-03-2014 6:05 PM
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Target Name: ubisoft-gw.ip4.tinet.net
IP: 173.241.128.42
Date/Time: 24/03/2014 17:31:26 to 24/03/2014 17:32:14
Hop Sent Err PL% Min Max Avg Host Name / [IP]
1 28 0 0.0 0 1 0 home.gateway.home.gateway [192.168.1.254]
2 28 1 3.6 14 134 27 lo0-central10.ptw-ag01.plus.net [195.166.128.195]
3 28 3 10.7 13 14 13 link-a-central10.ptw-gw01.plus.net [212.159.2.144]
4 28 0 0.0 13 18 13 xe-4-2-0.ptw-cr01.plus.net [212.159.0.240]
5 11 0 0.0 14 221 84 te-4-2.car5.London1.Level3.net [217.163.45.249]
6 28 0 0.0 13 18 13 ae-51-51.csw1.London1.Level3.net [4.69.139.88]
7 10 0 0.0 13 37 15 ae-120-3506.edge4.London1.Level3.net [4.69.166.5]
8 28 0 0.0 13 38 14 GTT-level3-2x10G.London.Level3.net [4.68.111.26]
9 28 0 0.0 99 189 107 xe-7-3-0.mtl10.ip4.tinet.net [141.136.106.106]
10 27 5 18.5 95 96 95 ubisoft-gw.ip4.tinet.net [173.241.128.42]
Although of course i'm not routed via tinet, so can't see what route traffic to ubisoft IP216.98.48.56 would take, the above route does show that level3 are able to route onto tinet at Montreal ( mtl10 )
From BT's LG
Tracing the route to lb-lsg-prod.ubisoft.com (216.98.48.56)But what are all the Telia Hops about ? Linx also peer into tinet
1 t2c3-xe-1-3-1-0.uk-lon1.eu.bt.net (166.49.135.0) 0 msec 188 msec 200 msec
2 213.248.82.249 [AS 1299] 12 msec 0 msec 0 msec
3 ldn-bb1-link.telia.net (62.115.137.190) [AS 1299] 0 msec
ldn-bb2-link.telia.net (213.155.136.62) [AS 1299] 12 msec
ldn-bb1-link.telia.net (80.91.249.131) [AS 1299] 204 msec
4 ldn-b3-link.telia.net (80.91.251.237) [AS 1299] 200 msec
ldn-b3-link.telia.net (213.155.133.33) [AS 1299] 176 msec
ldn-b3-link.telia.net (80.91.254.17) [AS 1299] 200 msec
5 ae4.lon21.ip4.tinet.net (141.136.99.241) [AS 3257] 0 msec 0 msec 0 msec
6 xe-7-3-0.mtl10.ip4.tinet.net (141.136.106.106) [AS 3257] 84 msec 152 msec 84 msec
7 * * *
8 * * *
9 * * *
10 * * *
11 ubisoft-gw.ip4.tinet.net (173.241.128.42) [AS 3257] !A * *
https://stats.linx.net/cgi-pub/xlg.pl?run=true&site=LINX-London&query_type=+Trace&address=216.98.48....
https://stats.linx.net/cgi-pub/xlg.pl?run=true&site=LINX-London&query_type=+Trace&address=216.98.48....
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
24-03-2014 6:31 PM
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Quote from: deathtrap Although of course i'm not routed via tinet, so can't see what route traffic to ubisoft IP216.98.48.56 would take, the above route does show that level3 are able to route onto tinet at Montreal ( mtl10 )
As I have said before, you can't look at how your traffic is routed to ubisoft-gw.ip4.tinet.net and compare that to lb-lsg-prod.ubisoft.com because they are totally different. One is Tinet (even though it's the gateway for Ubisoft - but appears to no longer be? The DNS no longer resolves for me) and the other is Ubisoft. They have completely different routing tables.
Level3 London 1
Quote BGP routing table entry for 173.241.128.0/20
Paths: (2 available, best #1)
3257
AS-path translation: { TINET-BACKBONE }
edge4.London1 (metric 20040)
Origin IGP, metric 100000, localpref 86, valid, internal, best
Community: 3257:3257 Europe Lclprf_86 United_Kingdom Level3_Peer London Level3:11078
Originator: edge4.London1
3257
AS-path translation: { TINET-BACKBONE }
edge4.London1 (metric 20040)
Origin IGP, metric 100000, localpref 86, valid, internal
Community: 3257:3257 Europe Lclprf_86 United_Kingdom Level3_Peer London Level3:11078
Originator: edge4.London1
Level3 London 1
Level3 London 2
Quote BGP routing table entry for 173.241.128.0/20
Paths: (2 available, best #2)
3257
AS-path translation: { TINET-BACKBONE }
edge5.Paris1 (metric 41160)
Origin IGP, metric 100000, localpref 86, valid, internal
Community: 3257:3257 Europe Lclprf_86 France Level3_Peer Paris
Originator: edge5.Paris1
3257
AS-path translation: { TINET-BACKBONE }
edge5.Paris1 (metric 41160)
Origin IGP, metric 100000, localpref 86, valid, internal, best
Community: 3257:3257 Europe Lclprf_86 France Level3_Peer Paris
Originator: edge5.Paris1
If you are on a PCL gateway, you are routed through Level3 London 2 which takes via Paris. If you are on a PTW/PTN, you are routed via Level3 London 1 which takes you to Tinet London.
Quote TRACEROUTE (using port 587/tcp)
HOP RTT ADDRESS
1 1.34 ms router.asus.com (192.168.1.1)
2 5.99 ms lo0-central10.pcl-ag02.plus.net (195.166.128.183)
3 5.25 ms link-a-central10.pcl-gw01.plus.net (212.159.2.164)
4 5.05 ms xe-10-1-0.pcl-cr01.plus.net (212.159.0.196)
5 5.09 ms xe-11-1-0.edge3.London2.Level3.net (212.187.201.209)
6 11.89 ms vl-3201-ve-128.ebr2.London2.Level3.net (4.69.202.177)
7 11.73 ms ae-44-44.ebr1.Paris1.Level3.net (4.69.159.94)
8 11.82 ms ae-81-81.csw3.Paris1.Level3.net (4.69.161.86)
9 11.57 ms ae-1-60.edge5.Paris1.Level3.net (4.69.168.8 )
10 11.72 ms ae5.par22.ip4.tinet.net (141.136.103.181)
11 197.34 ms xe-4-2-0.mtl10.ip4.tinet.net (141.136.107.125)
12 88.85 ms ubisoft-gw.ip4.tinet.net (173.241.128.42)
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
24-03-2014 7:27 PM
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"Although of course i'm not routed via tinet, so can't see what route traffic to ubisoft IP216.98.48.56 would take, the above route does show that level3 are able to route onto tinet at Montreal ( mtl10 ) "
mtl10.ip4.tinet.net according to tinet's looking glass is located in Montreal not london
see http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,120077.msg1088297.html#msg1088297
So whilst i cannot perform a tracert to 216.98.48.56 aka lb-lsg-prod.ubisoft.com that is routed over tinet , i think it perfectly reasonable to assume that traffic from plusnet would take the exact same route as it does currently to ubisoft-gw.ip4.tinet.net (173.241.128.42) which is tinet's front door into ubisoft , and not only this but the linx tracerts to the UBI server 216.98.48.56 route to the very same front door ubisoft-gw.ip4.tinet.net , as do tracert's from other providers that peer directly with tinet, So i have no reason to belive that plusnet traffic would not route to this ubi/tinet gateway (ubi's front door) therefore it's reasonable safe to assume that the rtt to that switch is a good indication of what sort of ping i could expect to see if routed over tinet, i estimate 90-96ms for me, which would be around 6ms less for you ( when taking the same route from plusnet ) as our base latency differs mine is 12-13ms and yours is only 5-6ms
And yes as you have pointed out the plusnet PCL routing onto level 3 is different and for some reason gets routed to paris ,but at least it's not returning back to london before going to tinet , it that doubling back that increases the latency
These Are the Tinet switches that zen 's traffic routes through to ubisoft 216.98.48.56
ge-3-0-0-0.cr2.wh-man.zen.net.uk 0.0% 6 2.6 2.6 2.5 2.7 0.1
7. ae2-117.man11.ip4.tinet.net 0.0% 6 2.7 11.7 2.6 56.9 22.1
8. xe-1-2-0.mtl10.ip4.tinet.net 0.0% 5 79.5 79.6 79.5 79.8 0.1
9. ???
Their traffic route over a different tinet switch in Montreal (89.149.186.217) before hitting the gateway
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
25-03-2014 3:51 PM
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So we're looking at whether or not we can set the preferred route so it always goes PCL -> Level3 -> Tinet -> Ubisoft. even if you're connected to Telehouse. That's what I'm talking to the ops guys about.
The only problem is that it doesn't help with the return path. If we prefer Tinet, Ubisoft may prefer Tata and the problem is congestion in the direction back to us over Tata and that therefore doesn't fix it.
Enterprise Architect - Network & OSS
Plusnet Technology
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
25-03-2014 4:15 PM
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@ deathtrap - Zen has a number of core network locations, London, Leeds, Manchester and Rochdale. If you connect their Rochdale/Leeds gateways, you will take a different route to Ubisoft via Tinet - see http://www.zen.co.uk/about-us/our-network
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