Looking to Upgrade to full fibre- Worried about digging

[#1]

@bmc  Thank you Brian. this is appreciated.

I think the trench you can see is Virgin Media- they dug a trench all around the street and there are hatches outside most properties.

Yes both phone lines arrive at the same terminal which is pictured. I am not sure what OR did a few years ago but the original phone socket is on the ground floor front room but they then put a new master socket in my study which goes up through the garage wall and into my study (terminating in an Open reach /Gfast box).

I've added some more pics to show the border and the area behind the bin .

I really would like to have the option of cancelling if the survey is not favourable but I know I am stuck as there will come a time when my current setup will not be supported.

Thanks again.

[#2]

@Grother 

You have two questions that need answering. Do OR make an appointment for the survey so you can be present and what happens if you decline permission for any digging required.

You probably need to phone PN and ask.

FYI the "hatch" you speak of will be a Toby Box.

Brian

[#3]

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I had KCI2 and did not get an appointment.

However the guy did knock,  I was in and we did the tests, survey, and sign off there and then.

The phase 1 dig folks (I was not in) went a different route anyway having had a bit more luck finding my inward duct, and more interest in avoiding extra digging.

[#4]

@Grother 

If you go ahead do let us know how you get on.

Some thoughts to consider.

While the ONT may not end up in a "good" location you can run ethernet cable to get the Router to the desired location. For example the phone wire that goes up to your study could be used to "pull" through an ethernet cable. It would need a plug fitted afterwards. You could get someone in to do the work and perhaps other cables to spead the wired connection around the house.

From time to time it has been mentioned about using phone cables for ethernet but I have no idea how this works. I know someone on Forum does but I forget who.

From memory at some stage in the appointment process I believe you can text Access to Openreach and someone will contact you to discuss matters. Perhaps someone on here knows more. I do know you can text to delay an appointment to a more suitable date and time.

Brian

[#5]

For example the phone wire that goes up to your study could be used to "pull" through an ethernet cable. It would need a plug fitted afterwards.

If doing that, much better to fit faceplates, then use standard patch cables to connect from faceplate to device. 

From time to time it has been mentioned about using phone cables for ethernet but I have no idea how this works

Decent phone cable (CW1308) is normally 4 core twisted pair and so will work adequately up to 100Mb.

[#6]

@bmc Thank you Brian. You have been very helpful. I phoned plusnet today and they said if there was works to be done and I wasn't happy to go ahead I could cancel at that point I decided to go ahead and see what happens. I will let you know. I have just had a  text from Openreach confirming they will lay the cable along the original route. I just have to hope they can find a way when they turn up as, currently, I think the main issue is my newish slabs on my porch.  I've removed the  protective case and the existing lead seems to be stuck in, possibly where the new slabs were cemented down . Unfortunately, it seems impossible to reply to the text or speak with anyone. I'll leave it in the lap of openreach now and let you know how I get on.

[#7]

@Grother 

Just re-read the posts. Are you out of contract with Utility Warehouse? If not, you could be liable for Early Termination charges.

I could be wrong but it appears from your picture there is a duct in the ground that the cable comes out of but, as you say, it appears cement has been added to it. Might be worth getting a long screwdriver and see if you can push down the sides (not the cable).

The nuclear option on the day is to suggest to the engineer that they disconnect the current cable and pull that out, thereby creating a gap for the Fibre cable to go through. Problem with this is  - if it doesn't work then you've lost your internet connection until a fibre cable can be run.

If FF can't be installed on the day you can speak to the engineer about the possible options for when OR turn up again, not only for the route of the cable but the ONT location. I would have a word with your neighbour to see if they're happy for a dig along the verge in case OR ask.

Assuming the fibre can be run, it looks like you could get the ONT in the garage on the right hand side - is there power here? You could ask about running the cable upstairs but I suspect the answer would be no unless there is a duct in place, which is not worth doing until you know where the ONT will be.

I would suggest the priority is to get the fibre in with an ONT somewhere. Power extensions can be used short and ethernet cables run afterwords. WiFi might not be great to start with until things are sorted.

Brian

[#8]

@bmc Thanks for your help again. I had a call from Openreach whilst I was in work a couple of days ago. As expected, they explained that, because of the step, they were unable to access the duct on my end and so it has to be passed to CIVILS. I have no idea how long this will take but just had a text from Plusnet to state my new install date is 29 May. 

I would hope that my current provider will not cut me off in the meantime as I had an e mail from UW to say I would end on 19th March (my origanal install date). 

PS. I am not in contract

[#9]

@Grother 

That's not good news. Given the extended PN notified install date it appears OR do not think there is a quick fix.

I had not realised there was a step involved where the cable comes out of the ground. Is there any possibility of removing the "slab" and replacing at a later date? I acknowledge might mean a new slab is required. This would allow OR access to the duct. If the duct is clear then no further digging would be required.

You need to check with your current provider but with PN you simply go on an "out of contract" price (whcih isn't cheap). It might be the same with your provider.

Brian

[#10]

@bmc I should have added that OR suggested that civils may just make a 2" cut in the tile. Perhaps step is the wrong word- Its a small doorsetep as in the pics. They also marked it before leaving.

[#11]

"That's not good news. Given the extended PN notified install date it appears OR do not think there is a quick fix.

I had not realised there was a step involved where the cable comes out of the ground. Is there any possibility of removing the "slab" and replacing at a later date? I acknowledge might mean a new slab is required. This would allow OR access to the duct. If the duct is clear then no further digging would be required."

@bmc So OR Civils came today. They can either lift the slabs on my doorstep to explore further or dig just inside next doors garden and bring the cable in through my garage.

My wife is not really that happy with the doorstep being messed with due to aesthetics and it possibly not going back property. Does anyone see any issue with the cable coming in through an integral garage.? I am hoping they may then run it upstairs into my study where my router is currently

[#12]

Is there at least one spare power socket in the garage near where they'd come in ?

The official BT power lead is only 1m.

If so, I would put just the ONT in there and drop a network cable down to it from your router - probably ease through the floorboards and a hole in the garage ceiling.  I'm assuming there are no aesthetic issues with a cable in the garage.

For the instal day you'd need two sockets (eg extension lead or even a cube) so that the system can be demonstrated to work and sign off, then move the routrer back upstairs.

What is less likely (but still possible) is a run of external fibre up the side of the house to enter at first floor.  Several around me have a CSP in the street at the front and external grade fibre goes up and around to enter somewhere at the rear

[#13]

@Grother 

Were you at home when OR Civils called round?

I assume your neighbour is happy to sign the wayleave required for digging in their garden. As it's going in through the garage you might even be able to get the external CSP located inside. If I remember correctly you'd want it to go under the fence before coming in so as to not the "cut" the nice neat path to the bin.

As to running the fibre upstairs I doubt if the installer would be willing to spend the time doing this, even if it's possible.

What I would consider is having the ONT inside the garage where the power is available. Then, whether or not you need an extension, put the router in there as an interim measure. Once FF is up and running you can look to run an ethernet cable up to your study for the router - even if it means pulling out the redundant copper cable and using the holes for the ethernet cable.

Brian

[#14]

@bmc Thank you. Yes I was in and they outlined the options to me. They placed a rod from the BT Box in the pavement and confirmed it terminated somewhere under my doorstep (they could hear it knocking). They said it would be a bit of trial and error and the slab/tile would have to come up. It may not have gone back done as well (we did actually have a spare tyle). My wife made the decision for me! The neighbour is happy with the wayleave. My only concern with the ONT and Router in the garage was whether it would be OK with the temperature extremes and dust etc. As you say though, I could probably get someone local to do an ethernet extension to my study.

[#15]

@Grother 

From memory ONT's have been installed in garages according to posts on here but others may know better. I would certainly look to get the CSP along side the ONT in the garage to save "clutter" outside.

On the day the engineer may say no - it's not suitable. That gives you an opportunity to push for it upstairs.

The router in the garage would only be temporaty while you sorted out your cabling.

Brian