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Unable to report faults unless below 12Mbps - NOT TRUE!

Community Veteran
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Registered: 10-04-2007

Unable to report faults unless below 12Mbps - NOT TRUE!

I've managed to find out on the thinkbroadband forums that Plusnet are wrong in saying that they can't report faults unless the speed drops below 12Mbps.
A post by Andrew Ferguson (who knows a thing or two about broadband) says:
[quote=http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4112762-answer-is-easy.html]
http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/updates/briefings/super-fastfibreaccessbriefings/super-fastfibr...
What if I need to raise a fault on an 80/20 line?

We are changing the test thresholds within our GEA service test that we use to accept faults.  From 19th March 2012 there will be no need to wait until your line speed has dropped below a specific fault threshold rate.  Openreach provides a full fault diagnostic process that picks up the major causes of speed issues.  Any found on an end user’s line will be picked up by our test systems and we’ll accept a fault for investigation. For further details see Section 3.9 of the GEA over FTTC product description.
Point ISP at that link if using the 12 Meg figure

The linked document also says:
Quote
What speed will lines with the 80/20 product variant receive when the network is congested?
Openreach has implemented a downstream Prioritisation Rate (PR) for each of our downstream product bandwidth variants.  In the event of network congestion, we will decrease line speeds momentarily to reduce the congestion as follows:
Product bandwidth variant purchasedPrioritisation rate
Up to 40Mbit/s15Mbit/s
Up to 80Mbit/s30Mbit/s
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
13 REPLIES
Community Veteran
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Registered: 10-04-2007

Re: Unable to report faults unless below 12Mbps - NOT TRUE!

Sorry - just realised I should have posted this in the Fibre Trials forum - could somebody move it please?
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,850
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: Unable to report faults unless below 12Mbps - NOT TRUE!

John,
Thanks for this, very useful.
Interesting to note though that is an Openreach briefing. I've not seen anything similar from BTW and certainly the current diag rules don't reflect that statement from Openreach.
We're doing some digging.
M
KevinG
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Re: Unable to report faults unless below 12Mbps - NOT TRUE!

Quote from: jelv
Sorry - just realised I should have posted this in the Fibre Trials forum - could somebody move it please?

I've already posted it there.
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,339
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Registered: 10-04-2007

Re: Unable to report faults unless below 12Mbps - NOT TRUE!

Err...
Jim moved it well before you made your post!
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
KevinG
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Re: Unable to report faults unless below 12Mbps - NOT TRUE!

Sorry, I misread your post and thought you were referring to the 80/20 trial thread and hadn't twigged that this thread had already been moved from another forum.
Community Veteran
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Re: Unable to report faults unless below 12Mbps - NOT TRUE!

I deliberately made it a separate topic so it didn't get lost in the middle of the 20 pages!
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,850
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: Unable to report faults unless below 12Mbps - NOT TRUE!

One thing I didnt do was clarify a point Jelv made.
The article Andrew posted was from Openreach. When most FTTC ISP's like us raise faults, we do so via BT Wholesale, our supplier. Wholesale provide the diagnostic tools and create the rules ISP's must adhere to in relation to ADSL and FTTC.
Openreach, BTW's supplier clearly have different rules, which, currently BTW have chosen not to pass on to their customers.
We are absolutely correct in following the rules laid down by our supplier. We dont make it up willy nilly.
Jelv is incorrect in his opening assumption, however we've challenged Wholesales approach based on Openreach's statement and await their answer with interest.
Meantime, we've no choice other than to continue applying the current product rules.
We'll update once BTW respond.
M
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Re: Unable to report faults unless below 12Mbps - NOT TRUE!

Thanks for clarifying who is being difficult.
Quote from: Mark
and await their answer with interest.

I bet you do! There will be a number of users also very interested!
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,339
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Registered: 10-04-2007

Re: Unable to report faults unless below 12Mbps - NOT TRUE!

Given the contest between BT and Virgin over who provides the fastest speeds I bet Virgin would have a field day when they learnt that speeds down to 12Mbps are considered acceptable by BTw!
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,850
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: Unable to report faults unless below 12Mbps - NOT TRUE!

I dont think they'd get much mileage out of that. They've some pretty random rules around acceptable throughout, particularly during peak in conjested areas. Glasshouses and all that :-)
M
Community Veteran
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Re: Unable to report faults unless below 12Mbps - NOT TRUE!

Do you honestly think that would stop them?  Grin Grin Grin
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,850
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: Unable to report faults unless below 12Mbps - NOT TRUE!

Fair comment but we can only live in hope :-)
garywood84
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Re: Unable to report faults unless below 12Mbps - NOT TRUE!

Thanks for the updates in this thread, Mark.  I shall follow developments with interest.  
As with any service provider (internet, IT or otherwise), what is offered in large part depends on users' reaction/acceptance of the offering.  If you just take the 12Mb rule at face value and accept it, BTw will likely continue operating within it, because it gives them an easy time.  But, if customers refuse to accept it, and challenge it, then the provider has to reconsider and either change or justify the position more strongly (at least if it wants to keep the customers).  Clearly as EUs with no (direct) contract with BTw, we're not in a position to reject such outdated "rules" as fault thresholds of 12Mb for up to 80Mb services (which are all the more ridiculous when users are normally getting >70Mb).  So, it's good to know that Plusnet is prepared to question this and (I hope) to push for a change.