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FTTC Install/Moving the master socket

ashgeo
Grafter
Posts: 93
Registered: 24-07-2008

FTTC Install/Moving the master socket


At last my cab is about to be enabled  Cheesy, the fibre is run and has been tested. EDF are laying power cables and powering it up as I write this. After years on a 1meg (sometimes sub 1meg) ADSL connection the time has at last come to join the "beta" pase of the trial.
From reading the T&C's etc I understand that as part of the install process BT/OpenReach will install the VDSL2 modem and PN will supply a PPPoE router. There needs to be power near the master socket for the modem. If there is no power then the master socet can be moved to a more convinient location. It is also possible for up to 30m of cable to be laid (tacked along the skirting board kind of affair) between the master socket and modem. 
My master socket is in the hallway and has a double power outlet right next door to it (where my current router etc is). However my almost one year old daughter has taken to crawling over and tugging the range of power/ethernet/DSL cales whilst slobbering over the whole lot. The router antennae also privide some entertainment value to her as well..... My other half [SWMBO]  Wink has commented that "it is dangerous", and "can't you do something about that spaghetti mess". Therefore something must/has to be done!
I would like to have the master socket completely moved into the understairs cupboard where all the wires and broadband equipment can be conviniently located, out of reach, along with my network storage.  I am also willing to supply and lay all the cables so when the install is being done all the engineer has to do is to connect them up and supply the faceplate.
Have any trailists so far any experience/comments on having the master socket moved to a new location, or is it a case of a boiling kettle/coffee machine on with nice biscuits kind of thing and hope the engineer is a "nice bloke"?  Or are there standard charges that PN charge for moving the master socet?
Thanks,
George
11 REPLIES
jedi98
Grafter
Posts: 46
Registered: 04-08-2007

Re: FTTC Install/Moving the master socket

AFAIK - You can ask to have FTTC VDSL modem located upto X metres away frem the master. BUT in this case I think what happens is that the engineer puts the master filter into the existing position the extends the RJ11 modem socket to the desired location. I *think* they use a flat white cable, but I'm not sure. Someone on this forum did say what it was about 2 weeks ago.
- So on the plus side you can put your VDSL modem & router in the cupboard upstairs
- On the minus side (if you have no extension sockets) then the analog devices (phone, fax, analog modem, whatever) have to stay with the master.
Now if that is what you want, then you are in business.
Laying your own cable is 50/50 depending on the engineer. Technically if you put a piece of cat5 in for him he could use it. I have done that before but that was a commercial line in a factory.
As far as getting *unofficial* work done by BT engineers, I have heard of many instances where they have but they are not supposed to and you cannot count on it.
Me? I'd rewire the whole thing how I wanted it in advance, using BT standard stuff, but that's just me and I know exactly what I am doing with BT lines. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who is not totally confident with it because it might end up hindering the whole install.
Now, I'll go and see if I can find that other post...
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,93606.msg784868.html#msg784868
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,92373.msg773232.html#msg773232
prichardson
Grafter
Posts: 1,503
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: FTTC Install/Moving the master socket

The advice provided so far is pretty spot on.
Movement of the master socket is not designate work by the engineer. These engineers are there to provision the FTTC GEA product, which include replacement of the BT serviced front plate.
We can however order the "Data Extension Kit (Home Wiring Solution)". This is something we do at default at the moment as "Authorised if required" (options of "not authorised" and "authorised" also exists).
[quote author="BT Wholesale WBC FTTC Handbook"]
If the active NTE is to be sited more than approximately 1.5 metres from the NTE5, a data extension kit will be required to deliver the Ethernet service to the modem. The data extension kit provides a maximum additional 30 Metres distance from the NTE5 and can be routed internally or externally to an additional data extension point where the active NTE can then be connected. The data extension kit is a chargeable addition; CP‟s are advised to determine whether this kit is required for their End Users in advance of an order being placed.

The kit and solution is effectively a trial at the moment, so there are no applicable charges. The rates and if they will continue the solution is yet to be announced.
The extension kit itself becomes the end user property and carries a 12 month warranty from fitting.
CX
Grafter
Posts: 745
Thanks: 2
Registered: 16-09-2010

Re: FTTC Install/Moving the master socket

FTTC is a way off for me yet (may be rolled out to the exchange some time in 2012) but we're considering whether to have an electrical socket installed before we decorate, in preparation (although we'd really like to avoid this).
At present, there is the master NTE5 by the front door. No power sockets anywhere near it, and running extension leads is impossible long-term since it requires crossing doorways. From the NTE5 there is a single twisted-pair running in the wall to a BT78A junction box, which then carries on via twisted-pair cable to a single extension socket. This socket has a micro-filter attached for the ADSL router and DECT phone. No other extensions are connected up. For FTTC, I would really want to keep the DECT phone and the VDSL modem and router in the area of the current extension socket.
1) Does the "Data Extension Kit" only carry the filtered VDSL (no voice)? And is it wired into the back of the NTE5 or does it plug into the front, with cable running inside the house to where it needs to go?
2) Do the engineers absolutely insist that the VDSL modem is connected either through the master socket or cable they install, or would they be willing to use some Cat5e or Cat6 if it's already pulled through for them? The twisted-pair feeding the extension socket isn't Cat5e/6, so presumably that would need to be replaced if they would even consider using it?
3) If (2) is a non-starter, it seems that moving the master socket is better? Is this included as an option for the FTTC installation? Any costs for this? We would be willing to pay for a proper job, than to have a hash made of it with messy cables running through the house.
AxeMurderer
Grafter
Posts: 164
Registered: 18-05-2011

Re: FTTC Install/Moving the master socket

1. The Data Extension Kit does only carry the filtered VDSL. It is plugged in to the front of the new master socket.
2. Generally speaking , the engineers are willing and able to convert an existing extension to the new master, provided that it is directly connected to the original master. They will happily utilise the existing twisted pair for this. In your case they might not be willing to go beyond your junction box...
If you are able to pull through some cat 5, then there is nothing to stop you pre-wiring an extension using it, or rewiring to the existing extension - in which case they should be delighted to use it as the new master.
3. Some engineers might be prepared to move the existing master socket, but they don't have to and would likely be more reluctant if it means there is a lot of work to do.
CX
Grafter
Posts: 745
Thanks: 2
Registered: 16-09-2010

Re: FTTC Install/Moving the master socket

Thank-you for your detailed response.
It sounds like the extension kit would not be suitable for me, so it appears option 2 is the one to request when/if the time comes. Getting power to the location of the junction box is no problem.
ashgeo
Grafter
Posts: 93
Registered: 24-07-2008

Re: FTTC Install/Moving the master socket

I meant to have posted this ages ago as it was me that started this thread after all!
Before OpenReach came to do my FTTC conversion I laid full spec phone cable in conduit around the house (below the damp proof course level) from where the BT line comes up at the front door to the understair cupboard. At the same time I also installed a local network using Cat5e cable. The object being it kept all the FTTC electrics away from my 18month old daughter and her curious fingers!  I plied the OpenReach engineer with tea/bisciuts and asked if he would move the master socket which he agreed to do as all that was left for him to do was to make the connections.
Attached is a photo of my set up. From right to left there is the FTTC Modem, Netgear router as supplied by PN, SamKnows monitoring unit, and a gigabit switch which enables me to use my NAS to full spec. The master socket is on the left by the lamp.
Excuse the "nest of wires" but in the cupboard it gets everything out of the way so does not matter.
I am chuffed to bits with FTTC after the sub 1meg ADSL2+ I had before. It is reliable and has consistent speeds, between 33 & 35 meg down and just over 8 up. At the end of a long line from the exchange there was no choice but to upgrade. I'm not a big downloader of stuff so have never bust my monthly allowance.
George
SpecialD
Grafter
Posts: 130
Registered: 14-03-2012

Re: FTTC Install/Moving the master socket

For my FTTC install I had the same issue. My master socket is also unconveniently in the hallway and the location I was running ADSL (an extension socket) is so far away that an extension kit would be extremely messy. HOWEVER....  after making my suggestion to the nice BT man that the easiest way to fix the problem would be for him to move the master socket by re-routing the outside cable around the house to bring it in where the extension is that I use. He said there was no need and he could make any extension the new master socket by "back-wiring" it ..  Simply put, he just made my extension the new Master socket, took 10 minutes and no need for messy extension cables around the house inside or outside!
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 25,684
Thanks: 1,079
Fixes: 46
Registered: 14-04-2007

Re: FTTC Install/Moving the master socket

@ashgeo I like what appears to be a smoke alarm in there also Smiley. Are you expecting problems Shocked
Customer and Forum Moderator.
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SpecialD
Grafter
Posts: 130
Registered: 14-03-2012

Re: FTTC Install/Moving the master socket

Quote from: ashgeo
I plied the OpenReach engineer with tea/bisciuts and asked if he would move the master socket which he agreed to do as all that was left for him to do was to make the connections.

I reckon these engineers know what's coming when they get asked if they'd like a cup of tea ... "Cup of tea? - yes please, so I expect you want me to move a master socket?"  ..  Grin
SpecialD
Grafter
Posts: 130
Registered: 14-03-2012

Re: FTTC Install/Moving the master socket

Quote from: Spesh
....  after making my suggestion to the nice BT man that the easiest way to fix the problem would be for him to move the master socket by re-routing the outside cable around the house to bring it in where the extension is that I use. He said there was no need and he could make any extension the new master socket by "back-wiring" it ..  ..

Had a different engineer come out and he said that the simplest way isn't always the best and did what I'd suggested in the first place and rewired the connection completely around the outside of my house direct to the extension socket and made it the master that way ...  gained 4Mbps according to his measurements.  Roll eyes
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,098
Thanks: 431
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: FTTC Install/Moving the master socket

I came across this info recently about the tests that the OR engineer should do and thought it may be useful to add to the thread, both quotes are from an OR engineer and the video shows one of the tests being done -
Quote
The pair quality test is electrical test of the line and is above the syn standard for phone (ie resistance to earth pass above one meg ohm rather than one kohm) . Tests for wb noise rein, ac balance, dc, ac, earth, hr loop and leg resistance,cap balance etc… then the vdsl test gives speed which we now have to get to at least predicted speed. The pqt is run on all jobs data or pstn and is making the network far healthier than it was 5 years ago.

Quote
the vdsl test is run on either a jdsu terminal or exfo tester and is sync stats etc as a router reports for adsl. The final eclipse or gea combined test is triggered by the engineer ringing the remote tester from the line, the exchange then runs a one way copper test and retrieves sync against or modem stats from the dslam. This is done on each install or the engineer gets a failure for test on complete (ie a kick up the arse) .