80/20 FTTC Trial Open

[#1]

@Adam
Its a deal, Happy to give the tg582 a go in exchange for some feedback.  Aside from the questions you posted above is there anything else in particular you'd like me to feedback on? Cheers!

[#2]

@Adam it took me hours to get a stable configuration on the TG582n. Each time I restart the router it drops back to the factory defaults and it won't always pick up the connection. It has to be the most unfriendly router I have set up in a long time sadly. Possibly due to the custom firmware and initial lack of coherent instructions. I find the wireless comparable with the ZyXEL in terms of both range and throughput. The 10/100 ports are the biggest disappointment for me. I have a wired gigabit LAN and I can't live with the performance drop so I have to introduced a gigabit switch. Also only having 3 ports left gave me a headache until I introduced the switch. Connecting to the internet takes significantly longer than the ZyXEL (up to 10 minutes on one occasion) and as previously stated it has often failed completely.  I know it is a budget router but it does not compare the the ZyXEL at all in my opinion.

[#3]

Quote from: devil5882

Ok cheers ill see what its like after the 10 days  its the same at the moment fast upload but the download is now slower than when i was on 40/2

Will be interested to see what happens after the 10 days on this one ...  I'll bet 10p that it's no different, and speeds remain slower on 80/20 than they were on 40/2.

[#4]

@willm888
Your router is on the way. It's coming along with a set up guide I put together for the purpose of the trial so any feedback on that in particular would be appreciated.
@paulpicks21 and MacBadger thanks a LOT for your feedback, I don't need anyone to send their routers back thanks.
@Gerry  that sounds like a firmware issue rather than a generic one to me but thanks for flagging that up.
@Bazza, cheers too, yes I believe the custom firmware could have been more intuitive, however feedback from the trial means that if we look to continue shipping that router for fibre that we can adapt the firmware to overcome any known issues. Also we'd obviously be sending it out with a much more formal set up guide.

[#5]

Quote from: Spesh

Quote from: devil5882 Ok cheers ill see what its like after the 10 days  its the same at the moment fast upload but the download is now slower than when i was on 40/2 Will be interested to see what happens after the 10 days on this one ...  I'll bet 10p that it's no different, and speeds remain slower on 80/20 than they were on 40/2.

Its getting worse

[#6]

Quote from: KevinG

ngins was apparently talking about the cable from the router to the modem, not the cable from the modem to the faceplate. I wasn't aware that Openreach even supplied this, normally they come with the router, not the modem.

Correct In my case the router-modem patch cable was Supplied with the openreach  modem - or at least installed with it.  It seems odd that this made such a difference but in my case sticking in cat6 cables definitely made a difference. 
Cheers
Neil

[#7]

Re: TG582n.
Took over 10 mins to connect
Once connected was quite stable but at a lower speed than the Netgear.
Lost settings on reboot.
Wireless range seems to be better than the Netgear.

[#8]

Quote from: _Adam_Walker_

FAO those using the TG582n, Bearing in mind I'll be sending you all a survey towards the end of the trial I'd like to ask for some feedback now on your experience of using the TG582n with 80/20 to help us understand if we should look at supplying the router for our fibre products. I've seen no feedback at all on this thread about them, so I'm assuming no one has any issues? If any of you does have some feedback I'd particularly like to know the following? Did you use a TG582n previously for ADSL? if so how does the modified version for 80/20 compare. Are there any features that don't perform how you would expect them to? Did anything take longer than expected? Are there any missing features you'd like to see in the router's firmware? Any other feedback about the router will be most welcome. Adam

Adam,
The tg582 is not nice, and certainly not user friendly.
I've not had a satisfactory answer on the security side of things with the tg582, connecting the "interweb/BTO Modem" aka dirty side, to the Lan/Clean side of the router is a hugemongous nono for me.
I gave it a couple of tries, and had the same issues as some of the others have alluded to - The Zyxel was a dog IMHO with the connectivity problems, plus my profile issues raised their ugly heads after that had been handling the connections, but I've now reverted back to the Netgear with the Zyxel connected as a Gigabit switch/Wireless AP.
I can't really fault the Netgear, it's more than capable of handling the speeds I'm getting of 75down and 16up.
If it's of any use, I'm also running the TBB Ping Quality Monitor.
My Broadband Ping

[#9]

Hi there, thanks for the feedback and I'll make sure Adam is aware.
Have to ask though - not sure what you mean by this:

Quote from: v70ben

I've not had a satisfactory answer on the security side of things with the tg582, connecting the "interweb/BTO Modem" aka dirty side, to the Lan/Clean side of the router is a hugemongous nono for me.

Connecting the LAN side to the WAN side is what the router is for, surely? What is it you're concerned about?

[#10]

Regarding the tg582
1)  when received, I was impatient to get it going so instead of using the "auto sort it out thing" I tried to put in my own details, but I found it very difficult to get to the right page to do so. The "wizard" did not have a set up for plus net.
2) I imagine most people ( or at least many) can easily find themselves already maxing out 4 Ethernet ports, so only having 3 can be limiting, and I am certainly a port short the moment.
3) the only way to change the admin password appears to be via the wizard, which as noted above didn't
have a correct config for plusnet. So at the moment if I want to go into the routers control panel I have to refer to the enclosed card that contains the password. Be nice if there was simple way to set up your own, without going thru the wizard.
4) I find the control panel in general to be slow, but I don't know it that is specific to the custom firmer.
5) It seems "wrong" that over the last 2-3 years, my download/upload has increased dramatically, and now at a theoretical 80mbits download, but the official router's client side network is still at 100mbits.  I think you could make it an extra selling point that your fibre products come supplied with a premium router with gbit ports. And anyway, I am guessing people going for this high end product are more likely to be tech savvy, and see 10/100mbit as very old tech.
6) is it inherit with fibre connections that it can take 10mins+ to get back online after a reboot (don't know if it's a router issue or a BT modem issue). This seemed to be the same when I was using the zyxel router
Having said all the above, I still find this router to be rock solid with the 2 apple airport express units that I have. The zyxel6404 one that I got sent out previously just would not maintain a wireless connection to them for more that a few minutes, and even then switching them off and on often meant they didn't connect at all.  This seems to be an ogling problem with zydeco routers.

[#11]

The TG582n was much better for range in my house (newish property with thin walls)
Initial setup was pretty simple but the instructions provided could have been better. On my Netgear I was getting 35Mbps max over WiFi but once I'd got the TG582n setup I've seen speeds of 65Mbps. Still not as high as direct connection which saw 76Mbps.
One problem which I'm yet to sort as its late tonight is that it's stopped working and lost all of my settings after a power cycle. I've plugged the Netgear back in for tonight as it got me back online in seconds where the TG582n seems to not want to connect at the moment. I'll try a full reset tomorrow and retest but stability got bad tonight with me being unable to login to it at points and it resetting itself.
If these issues can be ironed out it will be a nice router.
I still think Plusnet would do well to ship a more premium range Netgear that has better WiFi capabilities.
Rob

[#12]

Re: TG582n
In my 80/20 confirmation email from Adam Walker I was told that I would receive this particular router and was given 2 links to parts of this thread to help in the setup.  The most helpful was Chris' reply 1122.  This made setting up this router easy. 
The GUI of the TG582n is typically Thomson.  I am very used to Thomson routers and to Netgears but I admit that I prefer the Netgear GUI.  The 582 GUI is not very fast.  However, I found the router access password easy to change.  Toolbox - User Management - Change my password.
The 582 is a very solid performer being stable and having a decent wireless range.  In my house the Netgear N150 performs just as well.
The TG582n is slow to boot taking nearly 7 minutes.  I think that it is never going to.  Fortunately, so far, these start-ups have been planned.
The big plus for the TG582, for me at least, is that it is wall-mountable as is the Openreach Modem.  Both can be moved off the bench and are at least the same colour.  I do not care if the TG582 is ugly.

It does the job and does it well but the use of a modified ADSL router and port 4 to connect to the modem is a very clumsy solution.
I confess that I was hoping to get a ZyXel as I believe it has gigabit LAN ports.  This would have fitted into my gigabit network nicely.  I don't mind that the wireless properties are not so good as I have enough wireless access anyway.

[#13]

Quote from: Matt

Connecting the LAN side to the WAN side is what the router is for, surely? What is it you're concerned about?

Erm, The Tg582 <Modified> has 4 LAN ports and one ADSL port.
For use with FTTC, you are required to connect your FTTC modem to LAN Port 4 (Whereas on ADSL mode, you are connecting via the modem port, which the unit has been designed for)
As the Router provides a level of protection using it's inbuilt firewall and NAT, connecting LAN port 4 to the internet effectively places the internet on what should be the clean side.
Yes, there may have been some routing and firmware changes on the router, and some firmware hacking to allow it to do the PPOE on LAN4... but in the absence of a satisfactory answer, I can only assume that you are expected to connect the dirty side (ala, the internet) to your 4 port switch.
So yes, whilst your router is designed to "connect" you to the internet, usually you DONT plug your incoming WAN connection directly onto your 4 port LAN switch - you go via your routers dedicated WAN port.... As Technicolor's datasheet doesn't list this config....

[#14]

Adam, I've been stuck on the 40/20 profile since going on the trial a fortnight ago.  Router seems fine so far but will provide feedback when my profile finally gets unstuck and I get on to 80/20.

[#15]

Quote from: v70ben

Quote from: Matt Connecting the LAN side to the WAN side is what the router is for, surely? What is it you're concerned about? Erm, The Tg582 <Modified> has 4 LAN ports and one ADSL port. For use with FTTC, you are required to connect your FTTC modem to LAN Port 4 (Whereas on ADSL mode, you are connecting via the modem port, which the unit has been designed for) As the Router provides a level of protection using it's inbuilt firewall and NAT, connecting LAN port 4 to the internet effectively places the internet on what should be the clean side. Yes, there may have been some routing and firmware changes on the router, and some firmware hacking to allow it to do the PPOE on LAN4... but in the absence of a satisfactory answer, I can only assume that you are expected to connect the dirty side (ala, the internet) to your 4 port switch. So yes, whilst your router is designed to "connect" you to the internet, usually you DONT plug your incoming WAN connection directly onto your 4 port LAN switch - you go via your routers dedicated WAN port.... As Technicolor's datasheet doesn't list this config....

I think you are misunderstanding how the router works.  Connections are made via the various ports and the router "knows" which port is downstream and which is up, and does the necessary firewalling/packet inspection etc.  One port will be designated the internet facing port by the firmware - on the netgear it is the left-most port looking from the front but it could equally be any of the others.  At the expense of more complex firmware it would be possible for the user to designate the outbound port but this would offer no real utility (unless one port went dead) and could easily lead to cabling errors.  In this case since the normal outbound connection is via an ADSL2 socket it has been necessary to repurpose one of the ethernet ports.  Unless the firmware mods were particularly inept there is no reason to believe that this in any way compromises the router security.