Wrongly Charged £49 for new line

[#1]

We have been charged £49 for a new line at our house that we have just moved to.

When we signed up for fibre the only option on the sign up was a £49 charge for a new line. We signed up and an engineer was booked in 3 weeks time.

We then waited for the engineer and he didn't show up, as he was meant to. We did however get an email to plug the new router into the existing old phone line box.

We did this and found the router to be unreliable.

I have 3 problems with what's gone off with this installation and charges:

1) We were charged £49 for a new line even though a working BT line existed in the property.

2) We are now using the old wiring for the router and the broadband keeps cutting off.

3) When I rang up they now want me to possibly pay £65 for an engineers visit to check out my old line, even though I have paid for a new line that was not installed.

This would mean a charge of £49 + £65 to get my broadband working. This can't be right?

We should have had no charge for the line, as it was already existing and we are very annoyed about the whole situation. The guy at technical told us that we are over our 14 days cooling off period, as it took them 3 weeks to fit a new line that never actually happened.

Not happy about this, has anyone else had similar?

[#2]

Welcome to community.

I think a new line in BT speak is one that isn't currently connected to their network, and so an engineer is needed to attend either the exchange and/or street cabinet to connect the physical line that runs to your property back to the network.  I think it is only if that line doesn't exist (or is in use for another line), that they come and physically install a line at the property.

The other option is a line activation, where the line is connected but deactivated and just needs a small change to the BT systems to get it working again.

The £65 charge will only be charged if the engineer comes and there isn't anyone in, or he finds fault with your internal wiring or equipment.

[#3]

Hi PJ,

Thanks for the explanation. 

I knew the phone wiring as old this is why I wanted a new line fitting (to a different room)..

We waited 3 weeks and paid £49 for them to fit a new line. The old line and BT box is also

in the Kitchen, between 2 doors and nowhere to plug in the router.

To be charged for £49 for a "new line" then to be told to use the old one, then they want to charge 

me an extra £65 for a problem they may find on my old line (that I know is not working properly) is frustrating.

They should come out and actually fit the new line as I have asked for. What did I wait 3 weeks for?

The simple fact is I may have to pay £49 + £65 = £114 for something that most people have got for free.

e.g. broadband installed at their property where there is a working BT line.

Thanks

[#4]

Hi there.

If you can PM me your username I'll be happy to look into this for you.

For some reason I'm not finding a plusnet account from the details in your forum profile.

[#5]

Just had a response to this:

[CSA Removed] - CSC Analyst
11:42am, Friday 31st August 2018

Thank you for your time last night and for waiting patiently while I sum up the key points of our discussion. I was hoping to send this through last night but was unexpectedly prevented from doing so.

As we discussed, I added you to the account as an authorized user so that we can sufficiently identify you and, as such, discuss the complaint with you going forward.

The 14 days to cancel begins at the point of application, not activation. In your case, I see you applied online on Tuesday, 14 August 2018 and, as such, the 14 day period ended on Monday, 27 August 2018. As confirmed in our service message of the 14th accessible via the online member center under service notice SN380372677, to leave ahead of the 12 month term would incur a pro rata fee for each remaining month of the contract. In your case, this specifically would amount to £17.63 monthly.

Upon receipt of your application, our system showed there was no active BT line at the property therefore we arranged for a new line installation which took place on Wednesday, 29 August 2018. Some installations require a home visit whilst others can involve just a visit to the exchange, your situation matches the latter scenario. During our call, you asked specifically what the engineer did at the exchange therefore I referred to the available engineer notes which were vague and non-specific. Therefore, as a gesture of goodwill, I proposed to meet you half way and refund £25 of the £50 installation charge. The other option is for me to contact Open reach and arrange for them to obtain more specific data from the engineer. If the engineer provides a detailed report of what was completed and it matches the standard requirements we expect, the full charge would stand.

A quick line test during our call revealed a loop fault. As such, I asked you to complete some tests to rule out the potential causes. The reason for this is because if it is necessary further down the line to schedule an engineer visit to fix the fault, there could potentially be a charge if the route of the problem is found to be within the bounds of the property. By completing all the necessary internal checks via the phone we rule out all the potential causes and can therefore be confident that the cause if unidentified is likely to be external, in which case there wouldn’t be a charge for the engineer. I attempted to explain this specifically in context of your initial reluctance to try plugging into the master socket in the kitchen.

After identifying there was no test port behind the face plate of the first phone socket, you plugged the DSL cable into the master phone socket in your kitchen, which appeared to establish a stable connection. Afterwards, I ran a further test which, this time, revealed no fault therefore I agreed with you to monitor the connection over 24 hours to identify any improvement in the connection stability. As agreed, I will call again later today to pick up where we left off yesterday.

In the meantime, if you have any further questions, please get in touch. I am working until 9pm today and can be reached on 0800 587 2677

This Question is now on hold until Friday 31st August at 7:00pm.
------------

Main take away from this response:

"I proposed to meet you half way and refund £25 of the £50 installation charge. The other option is for me to contact Open reach and arrange for them to obtain more specific data from the engineer. If the engineer provides a detailed report of what was completed and it matches the standard requirements we expect, the full charge would stand."

This basically says; I can accept a £25 refund. If I want an explanation of what's gone on with the line install, this partial refund will be removed.

I am not happy with being threatened and that's the way this comes across. If I dare ask for an explanation, you won't get a partial refund.

I believed I was dealing with an broadband company, not the Gestapo.

Moderator's note by Dick (Strat): CSA name(s) removed (to an area staff can see) as per Forum rules.

[#6]

Thanks for PMing me your address details.

Unfortunately I've still not found your account. Could you PM me your plusnet username please?

[#7]

As you have posted this on a public forum I assume that you wish it to be viewed by third parties. Hence my view of this situation.

1. You paid for a 'new line' or in other words either a disconnected line that needed to be reconnected or if one is not installed in your property the actual installation of a line. BT records showed that a line was already installed in your property.

2. There is a question as to whether BT actually needed to do a physical reconnection at their end of the line or if all that was required was the reactivation of the existing line. Plusnet have given you two options. Either the fee is split or the actual work undertaken is investigated and full cost charged if appropriate.

3. Initial tests indicates that so far that the problem you have with your connection is probably due to an internal wiring issue. All internal wiring downstream of the master socket is your responsibility.

I understand that you are disappointed that a new socket has not been installed in your preferred location but I fail to see why you should think that you are being threatened or that Plusnet are acting like the Gestapo.

[#8]

Hi Baldrick,

Thanks for the response.

There was no BT line shown at the property, even though there is a working BT line in the kitchen.

This seemed odd to me that I would be charged £49 for a new line in the first place.

I then find despite there being no line shown at my property, an engineer should then have turned up to fit a new line. They didn't show up and simply told me to plug the router into the existing socket.

I plugged in the router and found the wiring to be poor. Plusnet then wanted to charge me an additional £65 for an engineers visit.

When I questioned all of this they offered me a (partial) £25 line install refund on the proviso that I didn't question the shoddy service I had received so far. If I did want to take my complaint further, the offer of the £25 line install refund would be withdrawn.

This to me is a threat. A threat that should not happen by an Internet company.

The other problem is that when I rang up for the fibre broadband, I was told that the 14 day cooling off period was when the equipment was installed. This was proven to be a compete lie, as when I was switched on after 3 weeks of waiting and receiving this shoddy service, I was then told the 14 day cool off period was long gone from the day of the order, not the day of install. I was told a complete and utter lie by the sales department to help the order along.

[#9]

Would you expect Openreach to dig up your garden or driveway if necessary to physically put in some new cable, or would you expect them to simply use whatever wires are already there?

According to Plusnet's price guide, "Start of a stopped BT line" is free, but "Start of a stopped LLU line" is the same £49.99 as a "New line provide".

The price guide also lists

For converting hard-wired master sockets (and any other conversion charges) a £160 charge is payable for the first hours work and after this a £65 per hour (or part hour) charge applies.

[#10]

@Bond0069

The most disturbing thing I read is 'I was told that the 14 day cooling off period was when the equipment was installed.'

This is in conflict with the Plusnet Terms and Conditions. As Plusnet records telephone conversations then in my view this needs investigating by Plusnet and if confirmed the agent you spoke to 'retrained'. I have a more prosaic description of action needed involving boots and posteriors! If this is confirmed then Plusnet should release you from the contract without penalty if you so wish. Perhaps a formal complaint?

On the other issues I'm afraid I'm less sympathetic. You have obviously misinterpreted what is meant by 'new line install' resulting in disappointment that a new socket was not installed in your preferred location. The BT understanding is that a physical line will be reconnected to their infrastructure. Your original line would have been installed (no doubt at a much higher cost than £49) by BT. If the charge is justified then this will have either been transferred from BT's exchange equipment to an LLU or simply disconnected as previously there was no active line in the property because, for example, a 'cable' company had been supplying a service. There is obviously a question over whether this was the case or if the line was previously live and you have just taken over a working line. Plusnet have given you the option of either splitting the cost with you or finding out which is the truth. In hindsight it might of irritated you less if they had not given you the option and just investigated and charged accordingly.

If the BT line was reconnected and now works properly at the Master socket then there is no evidence that this was a shoddy job. Unfortunately any internal wiring is your responsibility. Consequently if a BT engineer visits your property the outcome is likely to be 'not our problem', leave and you end up with a charge of £65. Not wishing to pour petrol on a fire but I understand that moving a master socket is charged at £160.

If your current master socket location is not conveniently sited with respect to where you wish to locate your router and you don't want to pay to have the master socket moved then I suggest that you describe your requirements and current wiring arrangements on this forum where no doubt more advice will be forthcoming.

[#11]

Hi @Bond0069

Unfortunately I don't think I could add more than what the agent has said above.

While new line installations generally do require an engineer visit, they don't always and the fee is still applicable as work would still need to be carried out at the exchange to connect your phone line up. 

With that in mind, I feel that refunding half a new line installation fee is fair.

If you want me to look into this further please provide me with your plusnet username.

[#12]

Why would you ask a question about digging up gardens to strongly make a point of how unreasonable I am?

Anyone but yourself who reads your last comment will understand where I'm coming from on that point.

[#13]

Another point ejs,

I have a working BT master socket in my kitchen. It's says BT on the face plate and has a dial tone. Hence my disappointment about the initial £49 fee.

Moderator's note by Dick (Strat): Insult(s) removed as per Forum rules.

[#14]

---

@Bond0069 wrote:

I have a working BT master socket in my kitchen. It's says BT on the face plate and has a dial tone. Hence my disappointment about the initial £49 fee.

The question has to be 'did you have a dial tone from a service that used the BT infrastructure but definitely not an LLU provider (who could well of previously taken over the line) before you took out a contract with Plusnet'? If so you should dispute the £49 charge.

If you continue with Plusnet and follow this forum for a while you will find that @ejs is highly respected for his in depth knowledge of telecoms, which has helped many people.

Moderator's note by Mike (Mav): Insult(s) quoted from previous post removed as per Forum rules.

[#15]

If you had a BT master socket did you not try and dial out from it?

You could have dialled a mobile phone to see what the number was - if it was working. Odds on it was disabled at the exchange, hence why you were told there was no currently active phone. As has already been pointed out, you would then be charged for an engineer to activate it.