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Will I need a new VDSL Faceplate installed when I upgrade to FTTC?

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Grafter
Posts: 25
Registered: ‎26-02-2019

Will I need a new VDSL Faceplate installed when I upgrade to FTTC?

Hello, I have a question to ask. I currently have ADSL with Plusnet which will end in January. I have just been upgraded to Fibre to the Cabinet in October from an Exchange Only Line after 10 years of waiting.

I currently have an NTE5C Faceplate which was actually previously installed by a Sky engineer a few years ago because of a problem I had with disconnection.

I use a micro filter to connect my broadband and phone. Unfortunately till this day I still have this issue where if I plug in and plug out the telephone wire from the micro filter my internet would disconnect instantly. Also when my phone rings the router will also sometimes disconnect.

I just found out that there is a new 2019 BT Openreach Telephone Master Socket NTE5c MK2 & VDSL/ADSL Faceplate MK4 this in essence comes with a separate broadband socket and telephone socket and plugs into a test socket. Meaning I will no longer need to use a separate micro filter as this is built in. Something I wasn't aware of before.

Will this resolve this problem with the internet dropping out when phone rings or when a phone is plugged in? Also with regards to internet speeds via Fibre to the Cabinet, I heard that using a micro filter as opposed to a VDSL Faceplate causes reduced reliability and connection speed, is this true? And will a VDSL Faceplate improve performance to speed and reliability of Fibre and most importantly this issue with internet disconnecting when phone rings?

Many thanks.

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Registered: ‎28-02-2017

Re: Will I need a new VDSL Faceplate installed when I upgrade to FTTC?

@serajmi 

Filtered faceplates have been around for a while. There are others on the market apart from BT's.

 

Although your contract appears to end in January I would contact PlusNet now if you want to upgrade. Too late for Christmas but you would at least have an idea of what's available deal wise. I suspect you would be able to place an upgrade order as it's only a few weeks till the end of your current contract.

 

I think the PlusNet "Customer Options" number is 0800 013 2632

 

Mention the problem with your filter. Although generally you don't need a visit from an OR Engineer to upgrade (the work is done at the cabinet) you might get them round to have a look and fit a new faceplate for you.

 

Brian

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Grafter
Posts: 25
Registered: ‎26-02-2019

Re: Will I need a new VDSL Faceplate installed when I upgrade to FTTC?

Many thanks for your response, Brian.

The problem is that if I call out a BT Openreach engineer just to replace the faceplate with a new one they will charge me around £130 the equivalence of a new telephone line!

I am now considering to also install a new line as well because I have another issue with the length of my line being artificially longer than it should.

For example I am looking to have a shorter line, fresh new start for FTTC. Currently I have 10 meters of extra copper from intrusion point of the door that then leads to a small junction box BT80A from there another approximately 1 or 2 meter cable that connects to a telephone socket to the bedroom. There is a shortcut to make it shorter, but engineer took a long route in whole way 10 years ago by an ex-tenant. This is circulating and making it longer than it should. Now I don't know if this also has any negative impact on performance, noise, speed and reliability but it is something that is making me curious!

I also have a problem with noise on the line where I had to unplug the master faceplate and directly connect to the test socket then it is more stable, but once again my internet would not be stable at 3dB or 6dB and needs to be capped to 9dB.

I will see if with FTTC things will improve knowing the cabinet is now around 320 meters instead of over 1000 meters with ADSL. I already paid year upfront to Plusnet so picking an FTTC package now will lead to a loss of 1 month. January 22nd contract will end. I will also need new router as I have Plusnet Hub Zero that is more suited for ADSL.

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Hero
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Re: Will I need a new VDSL Faceplate installed when I upgrade to FTTC?

@serajmi 

If your contract ends the 22 January then order your upgrade in the last month of your contract, that is after the 22 December, that's next Tusday.

Plug a wired phone into the Test socket, ring 17070 then select option 2. This is the official quiet line test. If there's any background noise then report a phone, not broadband fault now. You will not get decent fibre performance unless this is fixed.

To get the best performance you should buy a filtered faceplate, you can get them from Amazon. Rewire extensions to the filtered output. It is important not to have any extensions wired upstream of your filtered faceplate.

If this is difficult consider scrapping the extension cables and buy a wireless multi handset phone.

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Re: Will I need a new VDSL Faceplate installed when I upgrade to FTTC?

@serajmi 

If the OR engineer visits as part of your FTTC upgrade then there's no charge. So if you point out to PlusNet you're having problems when you phone them then you should get a visit.

 

The faceplate replacement should be automatic. They'll also check your wiring and sort out any obvious problems.

 

PlusNet send you a new router for FTTC. It's a re-badged BT HH5a.

 

Finally, if you follow the PlusNet upgrade process on-line (but don't commit!!!) you should get an idea of the speeds available on FTTC.

 

Brian

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Grafter
Posts: 25
Registered: ‎26-02-2019

Re: Will I need a new VDSL Faceplate installed when I upgrade to FTTC?

Many thanks, Brian.

This would indeed be great if VDSL Faceplate upgrade and work on reducing the copper length in my flat can be done free of charge.

I would have appreciated if a Plusnet member of staff could confirm this for me here on these forums!

I don't mind calling Plusnet to ask them, but obviously my only concern is if they promise to do so on the phone and then later charge me. A new telephone line would cost £50-£60 and some providers even supply a new line for free.

Yes, I checked BT DSL checker, these are my estimated speeds.

  High Low High Low        
VDSL Range A (Clean) 80 68.2 20 19 62 Available -- --  
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 80 65.1 20 19 57.3 Available -- --


But this will of-course depend on my internal wiring. This is why I wanted to reduce some chunk of copper. At least from my measurement there appears to be around 8 meters of extra unnecessary copper wiring, now I'm not sure how much of a negative impact this will have on speed/reliability, but I want this reduced for the benefit of the doubt.

And if the existing work on that gets charged the same as a new line, then I may as well pay for a new line and new socket instead. I'm still considering my options.

Kind regards

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Re: Will I need a new VDSL Faceplate installed when I upgrade to FTTC?

@serajmi 

When you speak to them on the phone about upgrading ensure they raise a Support Ticket (Question) if you upgrade which you can then view (and respond to) in your PlusNet Members area. Make sure they understand you want an engineer round to your premise to "look" at problems.

 

I don't think PlusNet can make promises as to what an engineer would do. Generally speaking they'll have a good look at things and do any work which is within "scope" for their visit. For example replacing the faceplate would be in scope. Checking connections would also be in scope. Be nice to them when they call and hope you get a good one!!!

 

When you upgrade the date is dependant on engineer availability. PlusNet are not always good at communicating the actual date but if you check the DSLChecker then the narrative should have information about an "open order" on the line with a date.

 

Brian

 

 

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Re: Will I need a new VDSL Faceplate installed when I upgrade to FTTC?



But this will of-course depend on my internal wiring. This is why I wanted to reduce some chunk of copper. At least from my measurement there appears to be around 8 meters of extra unnecessary copper wiring, now I'm not sure how much of a negative impact this will have on speed/reliability, but I want this reduced for the benefit of the doubt.
 


removng 8m of copper wire should have zero impact on your connection speeds . Unless it is in very bad condition taking it out of the line won't make any difference.

 

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Grafter
Posts: 25
Registered: ‎26-02-2019

Re: Will I need a new VDSL Faceplate installed when I upgrade to FTTC?

Many thanks for your response. Hopefully it shouldn't have any negative impact. My concern was with reliability that higher speeds might put an extra strain on the line making it more vulnerable to maintaining a stable sync like for example having a lower noise margin than normal.

Perhaps this is purely psychological from my view, but it has been bugging me for some years now every time I look at the length of the cable circulating around the whole way and back into the bedroom where the router is. From there I use Cat 5E/6 Ethernet cables to enter the rest of the rooms via a small hole drilled in the corner of the walls. I know that length of Ethernet Cat cables don't have an impact up to 100 meters. But the copper that leads to the master socket is more sensitive to interference.

I know this extra unnecessary copper is there like an antenna to pick up even more noise! Something interesting I've noticed recently, I bought a 1000 Watt Inverter Samsung Microwave and temporarily placed it near the router as I needed to fix the brackets in the kitchen. When I was heating food for 2 minutes or so straightaway I noticed internet disconnection.

Now when I use the Microwave even from the kitchen sometimes the noise margin when observing routers stats slightly drops by around 0.5dB form 7.8dB to 7.3dB and then it returns back to normal shortly later. My belief was that by avoiding this extra copper cable in the whole way and having it shortened would lead to less noise being picked up (REIN) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repetitive_Electrical_Impulse_Noise

Unfortunately I was renting out the apartment between 2005-2009 when an ex-tenant installed the line in her name and I had no control over how the cable was installed as I lived elsewhere in my other apartment. Ultimately it is the fault of the Openreach engineer for making it that long. I'm now having to correct this and this time if an engineer comes and installs a new line I will be able to tell him how to take the shortest route. I realize this might be a more rational approach as I will get a new VDSL Faceplate fitted as well.

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Re: Will I need a new VDSL Faceplate installed when I upgrade to FTTC?

@serajmi 

Still think your best bet is to order FTTC and get an engineer visit as part of the install. The engineer might do all that's required. Given the costs involved with a new line (and terminating the old one) this surely is a better first option.

 

As you're now within 30 days of end of contract you can speak to PlusNet, see what they say and order FTTC if so desired.

 

Do let us know how you get on.

 

Brian

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Re: Will I need a new VDSL Faceplate installed when I upgrade to FTTC?

I think I  stick by my previous point.

The rest of the copper connection from the cabinet to the master socket is far longer and will also act as an "antenna" to potentially pick up interference. So an extra 8m is of no consequence at all.

 

Your best bet with the microwave interference is get  hold of an oven that does not leak microwave radiation quite so much, but it's inevitable will  leak to some extent.

Our mircowave is situated less than 6 feet from the router and doesn't affect it all. Distance from the DP wire to the router around 20 feet  to include all twists and turns.

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Re: Will I need a new VDSL Faceplate installed when I upgrade to FTTC?

@serajmi 

Forgot about the microwave. It may not be a problem on FTTC - different frequencies used I believe. That or a filtered faceplate or the new router will hopefully take care of the interference. You won't know until you're up and running.

 

The OR engineer might be happy to fit a new Master Socket if it doesn't involve running new cable. You won't know until the day.

 

Brian

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Re: Will I need a new VDSL Faceplate installed when I upgrade to FTTC?

@bmc  alas OR engineers don't visit the house these days for an FTTC install, the OP would neeed to wait until after the install and report a speed related fault which is when they would come out and do the work you suggest.

FTTC has been self instal for a while now, the OR guys just dothe work at the cabinet.

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Re: Will I need a new VDSL Faceplate installed when I upgrade to FTTC?

A previous poster has already beaten me to it, but the fact you can hear line noise is a bit worrying. So do the 17070 option 2 quiet line test.

I have had to do this when I had a landline fault and thanks to the people on here, I wouldn't have known it existed.
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Re: Will I need a new VDSL Faceplate installed when I upgrade to FTTC?

@runhare

 

Totally agree, I have a 10m extension from the faceplate to the modem, using CW1308 cable, and there is no loss of signal or change in S/N when tested locally the faceplate or remotely in my study.

There are no 'extra' sky wires from the master box, got them removed when I moved in, as they are potential problem area as is the bell wire.

Most of the problems are due to an outdated copper (or even worse aluminium) infrastructure not designed for the propagation of RF in the LF/MF/HF bands, and the added issues of crosstalk.

In an ideal world adsl should have been the quick solution, then straight to FTTP, like a number of third world countries have achieved.

 

As for the microwave issue, again I agree and am amazed the router still works!!