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Switch from ADSL to VDSL2 - Microfilter or Faceplate?

happylittletree
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Registered: ‎26-02-2017

Switch from ADSL to VDSL2 - Microfilter or Faceplate?

Hi everyone,

while I have a very good general IT understanding and know some about networking, I don't really know much about the whole DSL stuff in UK (as I'm from DE).

I'll be switching next week to fibre broadband. As I did not receive any appointment for a technician I assume all he'll do is switch me at the local cabinet I'm connected to.

It is my understanding that the current microfilter won't be replaced by plusnet when I switch. The microfilter seems to be a bottleneck for VDSL2. Is that correct?

If so, is it recommended to replace it myself with a faceplate, and if yes, are there any recommendations? (Costs don't matter)

I did a little bit of research and according to amazon reviews of some faceplates, they seem to cause problems in some households leading to disconnects etc. So I'm rather confused here.

If anyone here could enlighten me on this matter it would be highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: I should mention that I want to use a Netgear R7800 router (modem capabilities) as modem without the modem plusnet provides. It will be connected directly to the microfilter/faceplace. Powerline adapters will be used between router and personal devices connected through wires.

The router only has a female RJ45 connection, not a RJ11!

13 REPLIES
maulz
Grafter
Posts: 27
Thanks: 4
Registered: ‎26-02-2017

Re: Switch from ADSL to VDSL2 - Microfilter or Faceplate?

faceplates have a built in filter inside. they are usually better because  you have one less plug in connection than when you use  a plugin microfilter. but the actual filter will be v similar.

the more plugs and sockets the more likely to get losses to bad connections from dirt or weak contacts. likewise longer cables with kinks and bends and passing by other electrical equipment or wires all give you more chance of introducing interference.

so short and straight is best.

not saying you  wont get a good  signal if you dont do this  but if you are trying to improve something then its best to eliminate all you can that is in your control before looking elsewhere.

happylittletree
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Registered: ‎26-02-2017

Re: Switch from ADSL to VDSL2 - Microfilter or Faceplate?

Thanks for the reply maulz,

My current LAN/WLAN connections are stable with 100% speed and less (with max values taken from the line information given by the router)

So as of now there is nothing to "improve" in that sense.

Connection example: Microfilter -> Modem/Router -> Powerline Adapter in -> Powerline Adapter out -> PC

If I should happen to run into connection issues in future I'll be sure to troubleshoot my connections too.

For now I just wanted to know if a Faceplate is necessary for 42-50Mbit connections (which I forgot to mention earlier) or only something to consider using.

The argument with one less plug in the connection doesn't make too much sense to me in regards of taking full advantage of VDSL2 speeds. Perhaps I was a bit unclear. Yes, I see your point with less connections in between is better in general.

 

Perhaps I should ask differently and simpler:

Am I going to experience the full download speed (line limitations and workload taken into account) if I just wait for the switch to happen and keep using the microfilter?

Community Veteran
Posts: 1,584
Thanks: 272
Fixes: 33
Registered: ‎13-08-2015

Re: Switch from ADSL to VDSL2 - Microfilter or Faceplate?

I am a bit confused with what you want to do the Netgear Router, the R7800 is a router only, you will need a separate VDSL modem.

happylittletree
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Registered: ‎26-02-2017

Re: Switch from ADSL to VDSL2 - Microfilter or Faceplate?

The Netgear Router has an inbuilt modem.

If i were in Germany it would be basically plug & play (after setting up the connection with my given credentials)

But then you'll just use a RJ45 cable between wall and router.

There is no need to use a separate modem between the router and the ISP/Bridge unless there are some other limitations (I.e. I'm forced to use RJ11)

brookheather
Rising Star
Posts: 73
Thanks: 15
Registered: ‎02-02-2016

Re: Switch from ADSL to VDSL2 - Microfilter or Faceplate?

The R7800 is a router only - no modem - perhaps you mean D7800?

jafreer
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 844
Thanks: 54
Registered: ‎13-10-2012

Re: Switch from ADSL to VDSL2 - Microfilter or Faceplate?

You stated it was an R7800 router. That doesn't have a built in modem and you would need a separate modem. That is why it only has a female RJ45 connector as you stated. You can't connect it to a phone line.

If it is a D7800 router then it does have a built in VDSL modem and you will be fine. In that case it will be an RJ11 connector on the back.

 

Regarding filters, I would strongly recommend using a central filter at the master socket. If you use microfilters at each socket in the house, then your VDSL signal is going around all that additional extension wiring unnecessarily, and often that wiring is not twisted pair, but lossy flat cable. VDSL2 runs at frequencies up to 17.5 MHz. Flat telephone cable was never designed for that.

You want to minimise the amount of wiring that the VDSL goes through. If you are connecting the modem directly to the master socket, then fit a filtered faceplate there. I would simply use a BT MK3 or MK4 faceplate.

In my case, since my modem was in a different room, I ran a CAT6 cable (using only one of the twisted pairs) from the master socket (MK3) to an RJ11 faceplate in the other room. This was better than using microfilters because it meant the VDSL signal was not going around any extension wiring, but only along the CAT6 cable to the other room. The filtered master sockets have a couple of krone type IDC connections on them (AB) that bypass the filter, so you can connect an extension cable to them to extend your VDSL wiring (and hide the cable nicely).

You should be able to pick up a MK3 or MK4 socket pretty cheaply.

 

One last thing, I recommend buying a twisted pair RJ11 patch cable (a few pounds) rather than use the ones that come with modems as they often use flat cable. Twisted pair is best for VDSL. The MK3 or MK4 master socket has an RJ11 socket on top (unfiltered).

Now, will doing all of the above guarantee a better speed? Who knows! But it is good practice and gives your connection the best chance.

 

 

 

 

maulz
Grafter
Posts: 27
Thanks: 4
Registered: ‎26-02-2017

Re: Switch from ADSL to VDSL2 - Microfilter or Faceplate?

the filter is only filtering the telephone side of things.

the broadband side is a direct pass through.

the filter stops the broadband signal going to the phone.

whatever broadband you have it remains the same as far as all my research has found.

jafreer
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 844
Thanks: 54
Registered: ‎13-10-2012

Re: Switch from ADSL to VDSL2 - Microfilter or Faceplate?

Whether it remains the same depends very much on the topology of your wiring. Depending on that, having a central filter at the master socket as compared to separate microfilters can have a big difference. In other instances, not so much. It all depends on the lengths, routes, and cable type of your extension wiring. Also depends on the proximity of extension wiring to electrical sources of interference and mains wiring.

happylittletree
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Registered: ‎26-02-2017

Re: Switch from ADSL to VDSL2 - Microfilter or Faceplate?

Thanks for the replies everyone, especially jafreer,

looks like I messed up and got the wrong router, I was convinced the R7800 has an inbuilt modem. My bad.

Sorry for the confusion it caused! In DE the routers use R45 between them and the master-plug that's why I didn't assume otherwise.

Either I send it back or use it behind the router plusnet supplies (ordered the new one while switching)

So I will look for a filtered faceplate as you recommended and see what/if it does anything at all.

 

Offtopic:

Did it change that much or why would a crossover or twisted cable (was that the term?) be better than patch when used with a router? Back in the days you needed the crossover cables if you wanted to physically connect two PC's to each other without a switch or hub. Where there was a switch/hub there was no need for crossover cables since it got "swapped" right within the device, then sent properly to the other PC.

Or am I being a nab about this too?

jafreer
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 844
Thanks: 54
Registered: ‎13-10-2012

Re: Switch from ADSL to VDSL2 - Microfilter or Faceplate?

Most network cables will be twisted pair (other than these flat roll-up travel ones). Twisted pair offers better noise immunity. 

I think we are getting terms confused here. A crossover cable is a network cable wired to allow PC to PC connection (for example). We aren't talking crossover cables here, just twisted pair RJ11 patch cable versus flat RJ11 patch cable.

Often, the RJ11 to RJ11 patch cable supplied with modems uses flat cable and so is not as immune to noise. Now, I know a lot of people will say it won't make any difference for such a short length etc, but my thought is that for the sake of a few pounds, what harm does it do to try.

If you are able to return the router and get the one with the modem, it might be a good idea as an all in one solution is quite neat.

maulz
Grafter
Posts: 27
Thanks: 4
Registered: ‎26-02-2017

Re: Switch from ADSL to VDSL2 - Microfilter or Faceplate?

totally agree that a central filter  on a faceplate is the best option. jafreer is totally correct

anything that simplifies the phone wiring and takes out unused  extension legs will help reduce noise getting on your phone line

removing all the unused old phone extensions at the master socket will cut down on ariels in your house bringing  noise to your phone line as will removing the unsed wires in those  extensions you keep you need to keep. keep  pin 2 and 5 connected  for phones to work but  pin 3 is a ringer wire not used on modern phones and pin 4 is the other in that twisted pair  historically connected for neatness. it may not  make a big difference  but it could make it better and  your wiring less susceptible to future  interference.

all electronic devices  produce some interference some tiny some lots  and if you have lots of devices  they all add to the background noise  with harmonic effects  and all sorts. so anything you can resite away from the line is also a plus thats why  having a short cable from  the masterplate to your modem is the best. then the minimum interference gives you the best sync speed possible. once its in the device  you can send it around the house in ethernet cable which is a fresh clean strong signal and wont matter.

happylittletree
Dabbler
Posts: 15
Registered: ‎26-02-2017

Re: Switch from ADSL to VDSL2 - Microfilter or Faceplate?

I probably should have mentioned that I don't have any intentions of using an analog phone Cheesy

But absolute valuable information for others who have the same question and DO want to use analog telephony.

Anyway, you guys helped me out quite a bit, and thanks for clarifying all the stuff I was unsure about. I learned quite a bit today.

I will go for a faceplate with filter as recommended and return the router and get one with an actual modem inside. And get proper cables for it.

I do not see this as overkill as it diminishes the possible problems one might have to troubleshoot.

On a side note I find it pretty interesting how differently UK does things to DE, in regards DSL and other things.

Once again, thanks a lot for the replies everyone Smiley

 

EDIT: As additional info for others (might not find it but w/e) as several people pointed out, the "R" routers from netgear do not have a modem indeed. It's the "D" routers. On one of the help pages for the R7800 you see a picture of the router connected directly to the master socket which is WRONG!

inspiredron
Dabbler
Posts: 14
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎08-06-2011

Re: Switch from ADSL to VDSL2 - Microfilter or Faceplate?

I have swapped my standard faceplate for a Solwise VDSL2. We have several extensions including an alarm communicator. All the extensions are daisychained with standard BT CABLE which I don't think is twisted pair. Does the Solwise faceplate eliminate extension caused interference on the fibre broadband? Since my installation of the filtered faceplate (before which I had only around 5mbps) my speed is relentlessly being wound down, presumably to improve a SNR of around 6db Download speed as measured by Hub one is now below 8mbps with SNR of 9db. Can Plusnet still blame my internal voice wiring? When I first fitted my Solwise VDSL2 faceplate the speeds from test socket and faceplate were virtually identical at 9.1mbps.