Power Off & DLM
My DLM was reset in our living room by the BTOR guy after we had to have a new line installed not too long ago,they do it with their phone to the exchange. 
The commercial sensitivity relates to some of the exact detail about how DLM works, not that's any defence of AndyH and what's been said here. BT do not disclose every bit of detail of the DLM software.
I think you've said enough AndyH, I've only posted one small piece if incorrect information it would seem, regarding Resets, which I'll address later. So let's go back to earlier in this thread.
@Andrue
Apologies for the brevity of my posts on Friday, as I was out on a mobile device, I couldn't quote the relevant bits, it was difficult at the time just to type words that were actually english. The bus driver only knew the accelerator and brake as start and stop devices
But I had intended to thank you for the kitz link you gave in reply #14 - whilst I'd seen some of that information elsewhere previously, I'd not seen all that detail and that contribution was one of the most useful bits in this thread.
You having posted that, AndyH then had the nerve to post this in reply #20
Let's just go back a few more posts, reply #7 -
How you have the nerve AndyH to respond to my post in a manner that implies someone will have some disaster befall them if they followed the advice i gave in reply #6
It does not contradict advice from OR - it may exceed the absolute minimum time to ensure that DLM won't hopefully react, but that is the whole point of giving precautionary advice.
Only when challenged by yet a 3rd poster, 2 others previous to mine, and after continuing to bleat
did you eventually provide a link in reply #18 to a previous thread where you posted reply #6
Even after reminding you of Andrue's link and the way you posted up to then, you had to attack me on the way
Not at all. I dislike being quoted out of context, and being told I've posted something that's incorrect when it wasn't.
It's very easy to quote things out of context which you did as far as the 30 seconds are concerned - the full context being
My highlighting. In other words, an issue has already been identified on the line, the user has already become aware of that, no doubt run a few tests and contacted the CP - a totally different scenario from just switching any modem off (without knowledge of possible existing potential problems) or indeed swapping modems. But unless you've had an engineering background, you might not appreciate the significant difference.
I'm surprised you posted that after the kitz link - that's precisely the point, a couple more events can make a big difference as I'm sure some users will testify and it's irrelevant as to whether any interference or other issues are present at that precise moment. It depends on all the DLM counters and Flags at the time.
I don't think any of us know, nor BT say, the way/order in which the DLM software looks a which flags and counters. You might think it would do so in a logical manner, but someone else's logic may be different and software can contain errors/bugs - and before anyone says that's unlikely, I say rhubarb, just look at the G.INP fiasco as an example.
It's not scaring people at all, it's being cautious. Fibre DLM is more aggressive than ADSL and there will be plenty of people who were/are on ADSL who will recall the consequences of being told "oh just reboot it" to find their Target SNRM goes up, Interleaving applied, blah blah.
And without bothering to go looking there is at least one fibre user who wouldn't agree with you and suffered similar effects.
You should also remember that this is a public forum and lots of people outside Plusnet users can/will read all this and a significant number may well be using their own combined modem/routers that may not have the "dying gasp" function that would be beneficial in this sort of scenario.
You may wish to give "oh just switch it off and on" advice, but then you wouldn't be the one suffering any consequences.
I will continue to give precautionary advice, whatever AndyH or anyone else says. Oh, and whose post was it that was quoted at the start of that kitz thread
There's also a couple of other good reasons for being cautious by suggesting an hour, some users may not have carefully noted exactly when they powered off, get to say 29 minutes and think that's OK and clearly it isn't, also IIRC we were told that some of the counters/flags get reset after an hour but not IIR given any detail, whether that's still stands, I don't know, but in the absence of any definitive information, I'll continue to be cautious.
Oh, and as AndyH doesn't have the courtesy to respond to PMs to discuss points, then I'll correct him and point out that some Fibre trials were still going on as recently as this, as just one example .. a bit less than over 5 years ago.
Quote from: AndyH @ AO - Another unnecessary post from you that is quite personal in my opinion. You've posted quite a bit of incorrect information on this thread and when I try to correct what you've said, you take it far too personally.
I think you've said enough AndyH, I've only posted one small piece if incorrect information it would seem, regarding Resets, which I'll address later. So let's go back to earlier in this thread.
@Andrue
Apologies for the brevity of my posts on Friday, as I was out on a mobile device, I couldn't quote the relevant bits, it was difficult at the time just to type words that were actually english. The bus driver only knew the accelerator and brake as start and stop devices
But I had intended to thank you for the kitz link you gave in reply #14 - whilst I'd seen some of that information elsewhere previously, I'd not seen all that detail and that contribution was one of the most useful bits in this thread.
You having posted that, AndyH then had the nerve to post this in reply #20
Quote from: AndyH - if you could show where 30 minutes comes from and why you think it is correct.
It conflicts with Openreach information. I will see if I can post something else.
Let's just go back a few more posts, reply #7 -
Quote from: AndyH That contradicts the advice given from OR and the recent changes they made to the DLM for MTBR.
How you have the nerve AndyH to respond to my post in a manner that implies someone will have some disaster befall them if they followed the advice i gave in reply #6
It does not contradict advice from OR - it may exceed the absolute minimum time to ensure that DLM won't hopefully react, but that is the whole point of giving precautionary advice.
Only when challenged by yet a 3rd poster, 2 others previous to mine, and after continuing to bleat
Quote from: AndyH I cannot publish the documents and presentations for obvious reasons.
did you eventually provide a link in reply #18 to a previous thread where you posted reply #6
Even after reminding you of Andrue's link and the way you posted up to then, you had to attack me on the way
Quote from: AndyH Just because I disagree with something you've said, does not mean I am dictatorial or talking rubbish. You come across as very insecure.
Not at all. I dislike being quoted out of context, and being told I've posted something that's incorrect when it wasn't.
It's very easy to quote things out of context which you did as far as the 30 seconds are concerned - the full context being
Quote power cycling the Openreach modem (turning it off and then on) is a vital part of CP fault diagnosis process, and should be performed prior to submitting a fault report to Openreach or deciding that an engineer visit is required.
My highlighting. In other words, an issue has already been identified on the line, the user has already become aware of that, no doubt run a few tests and contacted the CP - a totally different scenario from just switching any modem off (without knowledge of possible existing potential problems) or indeed swapping modems. But unless you've had an engineering background, you might not appreciate the significant difference.
Quote from: Andrue
Quote from: Anotherone If you are suffering from any form of interference that does or may cause the connection to drop then DLM may act to try and stabilise the connection.
I took that into consideration and indeed mentioned it. I suppose if you happen to be swapping over the modem at the very time that interference springs up you could make things bad enough to trigger DLM action but that seems unlikely............ A couple more events would be neither here nor there.
I'm surprised you posted that after the kitz link - that's precisely the point, a couple more events can make a big difference as I'm sure some users will testify and it's irrelevant as to whether any interference or other issues are present at that precise moment. It depends on all the DLM counters and Flags at the time.
I don't think any of us know, nor BT say, the way/order in which the DLM software looks a which flags and counters. You might think it would do so in a logical manner, but someone else's logic may be different and software can contain errors/bugs - and before anyone says that's unlikely, I say rhubarb, just look at the G.INP fiasco as an example.
Quote from: Andrue Really I don't think scaring people by portraying DLM like some demon, lurking in the shadows, just waiting to pounce at the slightest provocation is helpful. And I don't think it's accurate either. A few power cycles is very unlikely to provoke a DLM response in my opinion.
It's not scaring people at all, it's being cautious. Fibre DLM is more aggressive than ADSL and there will be plenty of people who were/are on ADSL who will recall the consequences of being told "oh just reboot it" to find their Target SNRM goes up, Interleaving applied, blah blah.
And without bothering to go looking there is at least one fibre user who wouldn't agree with you and suffered similar effects.
You should also remember that this is a public forum and lots of people outside Plusnet users can/will read all this and a significant number may well be using their own combined modem/routers that may not have the "dying gasp" function that would be beneficial in this sort of scenario.
You may wish to give "oh just switch it off and on" advice, but then you wouldn't be the one suffering any consequences.
I will continue to give precautionary advice, whatever AndyH or anyone else says. Oh, and whose post was it that was quoted at the start of that kitz thread
There's also a couple of other good reasons for being cautious by suggesting an hour, some users may not have carefully noted exactly when they powered off, get to say 29 minutes and think that's OK and clearly it isn't, also IIRC we were told that some of the counters/flags get reset after an hour but not IIR given any detail, whether that's still stands, I don't know, but in the absence of any definitive information, I'll continue to be cautious.
Oh, and as AndyH doesn't have the courtesy to respond to PMs to discuss points, then I'll correct him and point out that some Fibre trials were still going on as recently as this, as just one example .. a bit less than over 5 years ago.
Laugh all you like, I'll leave others to judge whether my advice is just precautionary in light of all the facts. It's certainly not contradictory to OR advice.
Right, Resets.
Without wasting any time researching this, as this was also confirmed by jockwav, then I accept that saying Resets could only be done at the Cab was not correct
As I recall, we were told that, on more than one occasion, by Plusnet staff some while back. Now maybe that was so they didn't get overwhelmed by requests for resets, as they do nevertheless have to be done by Openreach. Will that situation change so that CPs can do it themselves, I don't know, but I do hope so.
Right, Resets.
Quote from: AndyH Resets are always done remotely by Openreach's DCoE (other than the automated system through an engineer's laptop/iPhone); the same goes for migrations.
Without wasting any time researching this, as this was also confirmed by jockwav, then I accept that saying Resets could only be done at the Cab was not correct
As I recall, we were told that, on more than one occasion, by Plusnet staff some while back. Now maybe that was so they didn't get overwhelmed by requests for resets, as they do nevertheless have to be done by Openreach. Will that situation change so that CPs can do it themselves, I don't know, but I do hope so.