Packet Loss / Drop Outs

[#1]

Hello,

Over the past month or so I have been suffering both considerable packet loss and temporary internet drop outs (1-5mins). I thought this may have just been a temporary issue so I left it for a couple of weeks and the issue was still present so I raised a fault where the issue was supposedly resolved (after another week or two) 

My existing Fault / Question ID Is: 178827899

Since the issue has been "resolved" I no longer suffer complete drop outs but the packet loss is still very apparent, I suffer this packet loss during gaming especially (CS:GO, Fortnite, etc). I have replaced the original router with an ASUS DSL-AC88U which hasn't resolved the issue but originally did help with the drop outs slightly.

Below is a few different readings from WinMTR, all of these have been conducted on Powerline. I would like to state that I used to previously play over Wi-Fi and Powerline with very few to little issues so I do not believe either of these are at fault as they both used to work absolutely fine and did not drop packets this severley.

- Pinging the router. (192.168.1.1)

Whilst this one may not be very useful or telling I thought I would add it anyway.

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| DSL-AC88U - 0 | 2392 | 2392 | 1 | 3 | 59 | 5 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

- Pinging Google.co.uk

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| DSL-AC88U - 17 | 1200 | 1000 | 0 | 3 | 52 | 2 |
| No response from host - 100 | 399 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 141.hiper04.sheff.dial.plus.net.uk - 100 | 401 | 2 | 21 | 21 | 22 | 22 |
| be3-3106.psb-ir02.plus.net - 1 | 1994 | 1993 | 19 | 22 | 201 | 21 |
| 195.99.125.138 - 0 | 1997 | 1997 | 21 | 24 | 227 | 23 |
| 62.172.103.228 - 1 | 1994 | 1993 | 20 | 23 | 201 | 22 |
| 195.99.126.135 - 1 | 1993 | 1992 | 20 | 23 | 270 | 22 |
| No response from host - 100 | 399 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 74.125.252.128 - 0 | 1997 | 1997 | 20 | 22 | 176 | 21 |
| 72.14.236.225 - 1 | 1993 | 1992 | 19 | 22 | 263 | 21 |
| lhr35s06-in-f3.1e100.net - 0 | 1997 | 1997 | 22 | 24 | 166 | 23 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

- Pinging a CS:GO Stockholm server (162.254.198.40)

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| DSL-AC88U - 14 | 1562 | 1358 | 1 | 3 | 50 | 3 |
| No response from host - 100 | 475 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 141.hiper04.sheff.dial.plus.net.uk - 100 | 476 | 1 | 0 | 22 | 22 | 22 |
| be3-3106.psb-ir02.plus.net - 1 | 2372 | 2371 | 19 | 22 | 201 | 21 |
| 195.99.125.142 - 0 | 2376 | 2376 | 19 | 21 | 230 | 20 |
| peer6-hu0-6-0-4.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net - 0 | 2376 | 2376 | 19 | 22 | 233 | 22 |
| t2c3-et-7-1-0-0.uk-lon1.eu.bt.net - 0 | 2376 | 2376 | 21 | 25 | 261 | 24 |
| ldn-b1-link.telia.net - 0 | 2376 | 2376 | 20 | 23 | 227 | 22 |
| ldn-bb3-link.telia.net - 1 | 2372 | 2371 | 20 | 25 | 185 | 22 |
| hbg-bb1-link.telia.net - 0 | 2376 | 2376 | 32 | 48 | 265 | 34 |
| s-bb3-link.telia.net - 0 | 2376 | 2376 | 50 | 54 | 267 | 55 |
| s-b5-link.telia.net - 0 | 2376 | 2376 | 47 | 50 | 249 | 49 |
| valve-ic-314988-s-b5.c.telia.net - 0 | 2376 | 2376 | 53 | 55 | 244 | 55 |
| 162-254-198-40.valve.net - 1 | 2372 | 2371 | 51 | 54 | 210 | 53 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

My understanding of networking is pretty low in general so It would be greatly appreciated if anyone could help me interpret these results and see how I could possibly resolve it. I have tried everything I can possibly think of and I would like to reiterate that all of my testing has been conducted on either Wi-Fi or Powerline (where I've previously had absolutely no issues) - I may be able to source a direct ethernet device for further testing if required.

Edit:

Currently running these exact same tests on a wired connection, will post results shortly.

 The below results are on a wired connection.

- Pinging Google.co.uk

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| DSL-AC88U - 17 | 2161 | 1794 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 726 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 726 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| be3-3106.psb-ir02.plus.net - 1 | 3563 | 3560 | 17 | 19 | 72 | 18 |
| 195.99.125.138 - 1 | 3551 | 3545 | 19 | 21 | 73 | 20 |
| 62.172.103.228 - 1 | 3556 | 3551 | 18 | 21 | 73 | 25 |
| 195.99.126.135 - 1 | 3559 | 3555 | 18 | 20 | 73 | 19 |
| No response from host - 100 | 726 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 74.125.252.128 - 1 | 3556 | 3551 | 18 | 19 | 72 | 18 |
| 72.14.236.225 - 1 | 3533 | 3522 | 17 | 19 | 72 | 18 |
| lhr35s06-in-f3.1e100.net - 1 | 3544 | 3536 | 19 | 21 | 74 | 21 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

- Pinging a CS:GO Stockholm server (162.254.198.40)

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| DSL-AC88U - 17 | 2140 | 1797 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 704 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 141.hiper04.sheff.dial.plus.net.uk - 100 | 704 | 1 | 0 | 17 | 17 | 17 |
| be3-3106.psb-ir02.plus.net - 1 | 3438 | 3433 | 17 | 19 | 72 | 18 |
| 195.99.125.142 - 1 | 3440 | 3435 | 17 | 19 | 71 | 17 |
| peer6-hu0-6-0-4.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net - 1 | 3437 | 3432 | 17 | 19 | 88 | 18 |
| t2c3-et-7-1-0-0.uk-lon1.eu.bt.net - 1 | 3440 | 3436 | 19 | 22 | 88 | 23 |
| ldn-b1-link.telia.net - 1 | 3428 | 3421 | 18 | 20 | 73 | 18 |
| ldn-bb3-link.telia.net - 1 | 3440 | 3436 | 17 | 22 | 100 | 24 |
| hbg-bb1-link.telia.net - 1 | 3427 | 3419 | 30 | 45 | 186 | 31 |
| s-bb3-link.telia.net - 1 | 3445 | 3442 | 48 | 52 | 109 | 49 |
| s-b5-link.telia.net - 1 | 3443 | 3439 | 44 | 47 | 100 | 46 |
| valve-ic-314988-s-b5.c.telia.net - 1 | 3434 | 3428 | 50 | 53 | 108 | 51 |
| 162-254-198-40.valve.net - 1 | 3445 | 3442 | 48 | 51 | 104 | 50 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

As you can see under all circumstances the packet loss occurs at the first hop.

Kind Regards,

Mike. 

[#2]

Hi @MikeJ123,

I'm sorry to hear that you're still experiencing issues with packet loss. I've re-tested your line from this side, however the test isn't picking up the cause of this issue.

Please let us know how you get on with the wired test. If your connection is still poor on the wired connection we will be able to investigate this further for you.

[#3]

Hi @EmilyD,

Thanks for your prompt reply!

I have amended my original post and the wired test results are similar to that of the powerline results. Although, I have just switched my micro-filter back over again to see if it may make a difference and I am doing the same test again and also running it from my PC which is using powerline.

Currently all is looking good, I will let it run for a little while and see if the problem crops back up, if it does, I'll update this post once more.

Edit:

Well that didn't last long, unfortunately the same issue has returned, losing plenty of packets on the first hop over all connection types.

Edit2:

Just attempted a factory reset on my router, same problem still occurs.

Thank you.

[#4]

Hi Mike.

From what I can see your connection is still dropping which has triggered interleaving on your line which a form of error correction.

Both the drops and the subsequent interleaving can increase latency/cause some level of packet loss.

Can you try the steps Here to rule out any internal wiring causing the issue, letting us know how you get on?

[#5]

Hello @Gandalf,

As requested I have repeated the tests using the test socket, the results are as follows:

** WITH PHONELINE ATTACHED TO MICROFILTER **

- Pinging Google.co.uk

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| DSL-AC88U - 14 | 236 | 204 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 73 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 73 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| be3-3104.psb-ir01.plus.net - 0 | 359 | 359 | 35 | 39 | 78 | 37 |
| 195.99.125.134 - 0 | 359 | 359 | 37 | 40 | 68 | 38 |
| peer7-et-7-0-5.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net - 0 | 359 | 359 | 34 | 40 | 87 | 36 |
| 109.159.253.189 - 0 | 359 | 359 | 36 | 38 | 67 | 36 |
| No response from host - 100 | 73 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 72.14.232.194 - 1 | 355 | 354 | 38 | 40 | 67 | 39 |
| 74.125.242.115 - 1 | 355 | 354 | 37 | 39 | 72 | 37 |
| 216.239.59.5 - 0 | 358 | 358 | 37 | 42 | 96 | 39 |
| 216.239.57.226 - 0 | 359 | 359 | 37 | 40 | 78 | 39 |
| 108.170.246.161 - 0 | 359 | 359 | 36 | 39 | 69 | 37 |
| 216.239.58.223 - 0 | 359 | 359 | 36 | 39 | 67 | 37 |
| lhr25s14-in-f3.1e100.net - 0 | 359 | 359 | 36 | 39 | 77 | 39 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

- Pinging CS:GO Stockholm server (162.254.198.40)

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| DSL-AC88U - 20 | 205 | 165 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 73 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 141.hiper04.sheff.dial.plus.net.uk - 98 | 75 | 2 | 35 | 35 | 35 | 35 |
| be3-3106.psb-ir02.plus.net - 0 | 360 | 360 | 33 | 36 | 63 | 36 |
| 195.99.125.142 - 0 | 360 | 360 | 33 | 35 | 63 | 44 |
| peer6-hu0-6-0-4.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net - 0 | 360 | 360 | 33 | 36 | 62 | 34 |
| t2c3-et-7-3-0-0.uk-lon1.eu.bt.net - 0 | 360 | 360 | 33 | 35 | 65 | 35 |
| ldn-b1-link.telia.net - 0 | 360 | 360 | 35 | 38 | 65 | 38 |
| ldn-bb3-link.telia.net - 0 | 360 | 360 | 35 | 40 | 79 | 37 |
| hbg-bb1-link.telia.net - 0 | 360 | 360 | 47 | 61 | 192 | 48 |
| s-bb3-link.telia.net - 1 | 356 | 355 | 63 | 66 | 93 | 93 |
| s-b5-link.telia.net - 0 | 360 | 360 | 64 | 67 | 96 | 64 |
| valve-ic-314988-s-b5.c.telia.net - 0 | 360 | 360 | 60 | 63 | 89 | 63 |
| 162-254-198-40.valve.net - 0 | 360 | 360 | 61 | 64 | 91 | 64 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

** WITHOUT PHONELINE ATTACHED TO MICROFILTER **

- Pinging Google.co.uk

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| DSL-AC88U - 6 | 191 | 180 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 48 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 137.hiper04.sheff.dial.plus.net.uk - 98 | 48 | 1 | 0 | 54 | 54 | 54 |
| be3-3104.psb-ir01.plus.net - 2 | 223 | 220 | 36 | 58 | 68 | 65 |
| 195.99.125.134 - 3 | 211 | 205 | 40 | 59 | 86 | 47 |
| peer7-et-7-0-5.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net - 1 | 226 | 224 | 35 | 58 | 101 | 64 |
| 109.159.253.189 - 2 | 223 | 220 | 36 | 58 | 71 | 63 |
| No response from host - 100 | 48 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 72.14.232.194 - 2 | 218 | 214 | 0 | 60 | 71 | 65 |
| 74.125.242.115 - 4 | 208 | 201 | 40 | 59 | 70 | 47 |
| 216.239.59.5 - 2 | 223 | 220 | 39 | 62 | 119 | 66 |
| 216.239.57.226 - 4 | 209 | 202 | 37 | 59 | 74 | 55 |
| 108.170.246.161 - 3 | 215 | 210 | 38 | 59 | 73 | 62 |
| 216.239.58.223 - 2 | 219 | 215 | 36 | 58 | 74 | 45 |
| lhr25s14-in-f3.1e100.net - 4 | 211 | 204 | 37 | 58 | 83 | 65 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

- Pinging CS:GO Stockholm server (162.254.198.40)

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| DSL-AC88U - 38 | 94 | 59 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 47 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 47 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| be3-3106.psb-ir02.plus.net - 4 | 206 | 199 | 33 | 55 | 91 | 62 |
| 195.99.125.142 - 3 | 210 | 204 | 35 | 55 | 64 | 55 |
| peer6-hu0-6-0-4.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net - 4 | 202 | 194 | 35 | 55 | 64 | 57 |
| t2c3-et-7-3-0-0.uk-lon1.eu.bt.net - 3 | 209 | 203 | 36 | 55 | 84 | 67 |
| ldn-b1-link.telia.net - 3 | 213 | 208 | 38 | 57 | 68 | 64 |
| ldn-bb3-link.telia.net - 2 | 220 | 217 | 35 | 59 | 88 | 58 |
| hbg-bb1-link.telia.net - 2 | 217 | 213 | 48 | 80 | 194 | 74 |
| s-bb3-link.telia.net - 2 | 221 | 218 | 64 | 85 | 97 | 89 |
| s-b5-link.telia.net - 5 | 198 | 189 | 66 | 86 | 95 | 93 |
| valve-ic-314988-s-b5.c.telia.net - 2 | 223 | 220 | 61 | 82 | 93 | 81 |
| 162-254-198-40.valve.net - 1 | 224 | 222 | 62 | 84 | 95 | 85 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

 I had also tried using a different micro-filter and DSL cable, this did not make a difference.

Many Thanks.

[#6]

Deleted

[#7]

Thanks for this, though I wouldn't ping Google as they rate limit ICMP which means that they'll reject ping requests because their servers will be busy prioritising traffic instead of responding back to you. As well as the gaming server you're pinging, a good server to ping would be pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com

As your connection has been intermittent I'd recommend leaving your router in the test socket over the next few days for the line to settle down.

Also you've mentioned you're getting packet loss on the first hop, this may indicate the problem lies between your devices and the router. 

Are you able to try the router we sent you, and do you experience the same problem across more than one device?

[#8]

Hi @Gandalf,

I will leave the router in the test socket for a few days and see if there is any improvement, I'll also see if the original router makes any difference although I'm not sure it will as it is where I originally noticed the issue.

As for other devices, yes. Both my PC (Powerline, Wi-Fi) and Laptop (Ethernet) have been used in previous testing and have shown the same issues.

Furthermore as for pinging pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com that is absolutely fine but as for the game server, is that not an issue in itself? I've been able to play for years on Valve servers with no issues (on the exact same setup, just over different ISPS) and was even playing fine as of a few weeks ago and the packet loss is evident as it occurs every single game and is shown as per in game network tools.

Edit:

Now excuse my poor knowledge but.. I've noticed (currently) when I'm only pinging one address at a time through WinMTR I am not noticing any packet loss, does this information help at all?

Thanks.

[#9]

Can you replicate the MTRs without the powerline adaptors?  You are seeing a lot of packet loss at your router.

[#10]

Hi @Kelly,

In a previous post there are some from an ethernet connection in the test socket.

Thanks.

[#11]

I've made a change to the way your connection routes across our network.

Can you reboot your router and let us know if you're still having issues gaming?

[#12]

Hi @Gandalf,

Thank you, I will give it a reboot now and try play a game and see if I notice similar issues.

I will update here with my findings.

[#13]

Cheers

[#14]

Hi @Gandalf,

First impressions are looking really good, have had absolutely no packet loss at all so far. My only concern is the ping, which I assume is due to the routing. I'm now getting 70+ ping on all of Valve's european based CS:GO servers. (Luxembourg, Vienna, Madrid, Warsaw, Stockholm) Now whilst this isn't a massive issue (as packet loss is far worse) is there any way to get a lower ping or is it strictly down to the routing?

Thanks.

[#15]

Can you post us a new TBB BQM graph please?

Latency will be higher if interleaving has been applied to your line.  @Gandalf should be able to confirm.