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New Fibre Installation Questions

MoneyMan
Dabbler
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎02-01-2015

New Fibre Installation Questions

Morning all.  I am about to get my new Plusnet fibre (40MBs) installed on 13/01 (how excited am I?!), and I have a few questions that I need some help with please.  I've looked In the forums, but cannot find the answer I'm looking for!  I am quite competent at wiring etc.
In order to satisfy the "no wires round the inside of the house" rule from the boss (!), I will need the data extension cable from the master socket (middle of living room) to modem and router (study) to go outside the house - it will follow the same route as the external grade telephone cable for the telephone extension point I installed for our ADSL when we moved in.  Rather than wait to see if the engineer will fit this for me (especially as there are bushes round the outside of the house, so to fit the cable will need some pulling back of growth etc.), I am going to put a cable in myself, drilling through the wall behind the current master socket itself and then into the study, laying it behind the existing modem/router, ready for the engineer to wire up (cable length about 14m in total).  There are other extensions currently wired from the current master socket that need to be retained, so I don't want the master socket moved.
I was going to use this cable, as I can collect rather than order online: http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CAEXCAT5E.html  It looks as if it is just the same as the BT spec CW1724, albeit with 4 pairs rather than BT's 2 pairs (and so thicker).
What do you think:
1 Is it okay to use this cable from a technical perspective?
2 Can I just leave my un-terminated cable end inside the BT master socket, so that the engineer can terminate it inside the new master socket (rather than plugging it in at the front)?
3 Will the engineer be happy to just wire this up (including fitting he socket at the study end) as I will have supplied and laid the cable?
4 I assume this setup will not degrade the fibre signal to any great extent?
The signal would have to degrade quite considerably to get down to our current 4.5MBs!
Finally, it has been really helpful reading posts on the forums, so thank you - my wife just thinks I've found more sad blogs to read!
Thanks
Harjit
23 REPLIES
Kremmen
Rising Star
Posts: 501
Thanks: 5
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎13-04-2013

Re: New Fibre Installation Questions

I'm no expert but the Openreach modem needs to be within the 1m cable length of the master socket. If not DLM will likely hit you hard.  The router can then be quite a distance away from the modem on a cat cable.
In your situation I would look at Powerlines to avoid all that wiring, assuming your electrics cover the areas you need.
I only started using Powerlines a year ago after struggling with wireless upstairs and in comparison they are superb.
Let's be careful out there !
jsm51
Grafter
Posts: 42
Registered: ‎20-12-2012

Re: New Fibre Installation Questions

I'm guessing a bit here but as you will presumably have a filtered faceplate, you are asking for the OR guy to wire in a length of non-OR cable to the unfiltered, VDSL side of the circuit. I'm not sure that would be acceptable. However, if you can find a space for the modem/router combination in the living room (acceptable to the boss) then I would suggest that you use your planned cat5E cable to run ethernet from the router into the study.
You could put a cheap ethernet switch or wireless access point in the study as required, and it will also give you ethernet and wireless access in the living room for any entertainment devices that need connecting.
I have a similar but reversed setup with the master socket and modem/router in the study and a cable to a switch in the living room for TV etc. You are planning a cable run anyway and I think that is preferable to power line adapters on grounds of cost, speed, reliability  and noise wherever a cable is feasible.
ian007jen
Rising Star
Posts: 392
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Registered: ‎06-09-2007

Re: New Fibre Installation Questions

Quote
I'm no expert.......needs to be within the 1m......

Wrong, as you say you are no expert  Grin Cheesy
I would have thought, especially if an openreach proper engineer (not Kelly's or Quins subcontractor) the existing cable infrastructure  may be OK.
The master could and really should be relocated by use of jelly crimps http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/2-way-jelly-crimp-connectors-100-pack-n72dv(BT spec) all your extensions will also be wired up and remain operational.
Your study extension will become the master and the living room master will become an extension.
If you are up for a bit of DIY you could also run the cat5e spec cable you linked to just to be sure especially if the older exterior grade cable is a little long in the tooth.
IAn
Dezz
Dabbler
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎21-12-2014

Re: New Fibre Installation Questions

You only need to run a pair of wires from the data connector / extension (top left) to the BT modem. I have this feeding a 15m piece of CAT5e into the loft and into a hallway cupboard (bungalow) where I've installed the BT modem and technicolor (for now) router. This is giving me 38/10 on my 40mb package which is the same as when I plug into the socket directly. Just make sure there aren't too many loops or tight tights on the cable.
I have also used another pair of the same cable run off the 2/5 pins of the extension connectors to branch out the extensions from the loft via a junction box too. The pair that you use for the data connector cannot be used for voice. There's no real need to move the master socket.
Hth Smiley
MoneyMan
Dabbler
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎02-01-2015

Re: New Fibre Installation Questions

Thanks for the replies so far.  I've possibly confused everybody (including myself) by my long explanation!
What I really wanted to do was to pre-empt the fitting of the data (or fibre) extension kit, which can be up to 30 metres long between the master socket and the modem itself.
I will supply the external grade cat5e cable (14 metres) for this, and I assumed this would connect to the two IDC terminators inside the front left side of the NTE5 master socket (rather than plugging in via a RJ45/11 into the top half of the outside of the socket) - I had assumed that these two IDC terminals were "filtered" for broadband, and this is where the OR engineer wires in the data extension kit?  Am I right?  Or does the data extension kit cable have to have a plug fitted, and actually be plugged into the NTE5?
Finally, I would be asking the engineer to wire a standard data extension socket (as supplied in the connection kit) to the other end of the 14m cable in the study, ready to plug in the BT modem.  I'll then plug in my existing Netgear DGND3700 router (which works with both ADSL and fibre) rather than using the PlusNet supplied one.  My existing network cables then run from the router to other parts of the house.
When we had the last lot of building works done 2 years ago, I put in a number of cat6 cables inside the house and a gigabit switch.  I was allowed to do almost all that I wanted, as long as I buried all the cables - sadly, I didn't have the foresight to put in a spare cat6 next to the BT socket, which would have solved this problem!
Thanks again for your help!
Harjit
Dezz
Dabbler
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎21-12-2014

Re: New Fibre Installation Questions

Yep that's all correct and the engineer should connect to the IDC directly etc. This is how mine would have been done if I hadn't done it myself.
MoneyMan
Dabbler
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎02-01-2015

Re: New Fibre Installation Questions

Thanks again - I'll get the cable laid ready for the big day!
MJN
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 1,103
Thanks: 54
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Registered: ‎26-08-2010

Re: New Fibre Installation Questions

Quote from: MoneyMan
I had assumed that these two IDC terminals were "filtered" for broadband

Just to note; the DSL connection is unfiltered i.e. it is the voice extensions that require filtering (via a low-pass filter).
Hopefully you'll be fine with your proposal, not least because I am intending on pretty much the same configuration two days later! In my case though the unfiltered extension is already in place within my existing setup. I am wondering whether the OR engineer will replace the current faceplate (ADSLNation XTE-2005) as I've read some other people's experiences of the same situation where they've left it in place.
MoneyMan
Dabbler
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎02-01-2015

Re: New Fibre Installation Questions

Thanks for setting me straight on what is actuallly filtered, I'm learning as I go along...
I'm assuming that the engineer will have to replace part of the master socket at least, as I don't have the part with the two idc terminals for the broadband.  It may be that he doesn't replace the lower front part with idc terminals for the existing telephone extensions?
I'll post after the event with my experience, just in case you find it useful!
H
Dezz
Dabbler
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎21-12-2014

Re: New Fibre Installation Questions

Quote from: MJN
I am wondering whether the OR engineer will replace the current faceplate (ADSLNation XTE-2005) as I've read some other people's experiences of the same situation where they've left it in place.

I believe I had an NTE5(?) socket previously and now have a 'BT Openreach MK3' according to the faceplate. Whether or not he changed anything or just added it on the front I don't know, but it's now about 2" deep instead of just over 1" ! I was more interested in seeing what he put in and then discussing how it worked. Really helpful guy from Kelly Comms for a change Smiley It would probably pay to have a chat about your plans and they may do most of the work for you.

Community Veteran
Posts: 6,735
Thanks: 12
Registered: ‎02-02-2008

Re: New Fibre Installation Questions

Quote from: Dezz
I believe I had an NTE5(?) socket previously and now have a 'BT Openreach MK3' according to the faceplate. Whether or not he changed anything or just added it on the front I don't know,
The Mk3 is just added, between the backplate and front (lower half) of the NTE5A, so you have both now. That's why it's deeper.
Studio_Two
Grafter
Posts: 106
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: New Fibre Installation Questions

Quote from: ian007jen
Quote
I'm no expert.......needs to be within the 1m......

Wrong, as you say you are no expert  Grin Cheesy

Apologies for hijacking the thread. Can you clarify the maximum distance from the faceplate to the modem (without the need for an extension kit)? Mine would just need to make it to a power socket across the doorway, so it might be a smidgen over 1m.
From Zen's FTTC FAQ: "The VDSL modem will need to be within 1.5m of the face-plate and close to a power-supply otherwise an extension kit will be required which can be provided to you. It is strongly recommended that the modem is wall-mounted to prevent over-heating."

Kind Regards,
Stephen 
MoneyMan
Dabbler
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎02-01-2015

Re: New Fibre Installation Questions

Hello again.
As per my original questions, I've now laid the external cat 5e cable for the new data connection between the master socket and where the modem is going to be sited.  I'm glad I did it myself though, and in advance - it took me ages to get the cable behind the bushes in front of the house, I wouldn't have wanted to subject the engineer to that!
Another question related to my install next week if I may - I've researched quite a bit, and I'm still not sure what testing, if any, the engineer is contracted to do whilst at my home.
I know they'll make the connections in the old green cabinet, add in the new face plate, deliver the modem and ensure the dsl light is green, but are they supposed to do anything else?  I have read of some carrying out further tests, not sure which ones, and some just saying goodbye!
From people's experience, is there anything I should do before the engineer leaves?
Thanks
H
MJN
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 1,103
Thanks: 54
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Registered: ‎26-08-2010

Re: New Fibre Installation Questions

How did it go MoneyMan?
I'm just waiting for my installer now...