My Ping and I

[#1]

What is LLU and how would I know if an ISP uses it?

No, ping isn't in OR engineers remit, their kit and procedures check connection, download and upload speed. They don't touch ping, intermittent or otherwise.

I'm out of ideas too, if I switch ISP I don't want to have the same issue and have to start jumping through basic hoops again, but if I do I want to go with one which avoids the issue if possible. I think this is the LLU you were referring to :s

[#2]

Pop your post-code in here:

https://availability.samknows.com/broadband/exchange_search

And look under LLU operator presence.

Please note, LLU providers have their own equipment at the exchange, but you will still be going through OR's phone lines, cabinets and back haul to the exchange before being handed over.

OR and all other UK ISP's do not treat latency as service affecting so they do not care - the best you can hope for is to claim Consumer Rights Act 2015 as they advertise it for gaming and it is not fit for purpose to get out of existing contract.

This is not a consumer residence issue - it isn't your network, your computer, your line, this is an Open Reach issue, either in the back-haul, or the cabinet/exchange.

My new line installs on Tuesday, my existing line I moved to another ISP (non-llu) and the issue is still there - so I have narrowed it down to OpenReach Cabinet/Exchange/Back Haul (which I thought it was all along).

[Edit]

My Quality Monitor output after changing ISP (non-LLU):

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/8e1817b98ca210d9632671bb87d27fcc8e...

[#3]

I will also add, my exchange has a ten hour planned engineer visit on the 4th June (after kicking up one hell of a fuss with BT), if by magic this (rather large) maintenance window fixes my issue I will gladly post the engineer reference for PlusNet to do some digging to see if they can find out what they did.

[#4]

Local Loop Unbundled - basically that ISP uses their own gear in the exchange and thus does not use 'Hope and pray's' (OR). Sky does this, as does Now TV, known as Now Broadband. I'm sure others out there do too. It does use the same cabling and if this is testing fine then chances are the same dropping connection wouldn't happen with others either. I came from Sky and only had 2 small SNR resets with them, but their prices went too high and thus we jumped to PN.

I didn't think it would be, but Plusnet (like others) do state gaming on their network will work, so unless they're going to remove gaming from their sales bluff then they really should keep working with you to fix this, or if you both agree, allow you to leave. I'm not saying you should leave, but there is a chance (but like anything else, no guarantees) that the ping issue might not be there on another ISP's connection. If it was there and it was a LLU supplier, then you'd know for sure it wasn't OR's gear at fault, but the cabling could still be suspect, as could something on your home network causing this.

What you really need to do is rule out your home as the reason, a possible way would be to use a mobile phone tethered to your desktop PC (over wifi obviously) to see if the ping goes away or stays the same, or as Anoush suggested lug your gear to another home owners line and see if you see the same on their connection, if you do then it could be your gear, or it goes way then it's got to be something from the master socket back to the exchange.

[#5]

@Gandalf Any luck with the faults team? Get a chance to look at the wholesale test? 

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/53368b6c33a567464347635665d879b66b96de69

[#6]

Quoting from the BT forums:

"Re: Recent online gaming ping spikes when streaming Netflix"

"My switch to sky happened a couple of hours ago and no sign of any ping spikes!!!! Multiple device streaming netflix prime youtube and my son on his pc gaming with no ping issues......So glad i switched. Sky is an llu in my exchange and i would have to say yes they use their own core network as traceroutes have far fewer hopps than bt. If anyone plans on switching from bt make sure its to one of the llu providers at your exchange. It worked for me!!!!"

(Edit)
This would point to an exchange or backhaul issue (hence why port switches at the cabinet have no effect).

Cant determine if its congested exchange or congested back haul from this though as LLU has their own.

This is now the umteenth person who solved this by moving to an LLU provider.

I think that as congestion increases, OpenReach traffic shapes prioritizing media streaming which causes the latency spikes.

[#7]

Interesting post there. I too have read of others jumping to LLU and their issues 'went away'. I've not a lot more to add about that.

However, regarding Netflix on the Plusnet network....

(snipped)

We have relationships with some of the biggest content providers (including Akamai, Google/YouTube, Netflix, Limelight and the BBC) in the world to host their content servers within our network. We're one of the biggest providers in the UK so serve a huge amount of content from these.

https://openconnect.netflix.com/en_gb/

For reference, the main topic that I raised is here and the full quote can be read on post number 5

I'm in no way blaming Plusnet for this, just that the content for Netflix is on their content servers within their network. Not much more I can add about that too.

[#8]

@DS does the BT HH6 i'm using support "DCHP option 61 (MER)?

Apparently that's what the router has to support if I switch over to Sky (seems like my only LLU option at the minute as Plusnet have gone radio silence since OR visit)

[#9]

As far as I know the H6 is locked down to BT (and PN - BT do clearly state it's for BT use only, but that's a bit of a lie).

Sky's supplied router isn't too bad, assuming it's still the SR102 (I think that's what it is, still got one somewhere).

Hopefully someone will pop their head in.

(to leave penalty free you need them to release you from the contract before jumping)

[#10]

They have already said on my account's question that I can terminate the account. I just hung in there as I genuinely didnt/dont really want to leave but I'm out of options now

[#11]

Oh, right (me too;), but my ping seems to be sorted and I really hoped yours would have been by now too)

I really don't know what to suggest. You could see if they come up with another plan (that doesn't involve more time off work - or possibly a weekend slot) or leave I guess.

The only issue with leaving that the problem might go with you, though on the other hand it might not - we won't know until you do decide to try another ISP (but I really would consider LLU or the fairly complained about Virgin Media).

When mine was bad we assumed it was across the whole network and thus as nothing really fixed it we lived with it - though it did make me quit gaming. Something (in our case this data centre issue or the last OR visit) changed and we can have my son gaming and my daughter on Netflix with neither of them complaining any more.

I still can't get my head around my fellow customers having issues or the fact that there's a few BT customers all reporting issues too - clearly this indicates an issue but nothing has (as yet) been done (or found to my knowledge) to fix this issue.

Most of these forums are, as expected, raising issues or complaints, and that's the nature of the forums, but although our connection seems to be fine I really am starting to question what we'll do come contract renewal. The only reason we left Sky was due to their pricing, if they'd given me a good deal I'd probably still be there now and I certainly wouldn't have joined these forums either.

Joe, I really don't know what to suggest, I wished I knew what it was on your connection and if I could I'd of fixed it myself for you by now - I 100% totally understand how peed off you are, as I too was there before. You won't be the last one either.

[#12]

The tale of  My Ping and I has ended, I've given up. I've asked them to honor their offer of exiting my contract with no charge.

I have signed up with Sky broadband (who use LLU) I checked on recommendations from people on here. Just want to say thanks to Anoush, DS, the OR's and all the other people who put forward their ideas for trying to fix my issue. I'm sure the problem isn't just my own but I've had to try a different ISP (Sky....*shudders*).

If changing ISP doesn't work... I will move house. It sounds drastic but it's on the horizon for us anyway and most of my spare time is spent gaming/generally on the internet. So not having that availability/reliability is not really an option for me and my wife.

I will pop back and let you know if the ISP change fixed the issue.

Thanks again to the community for trying to help!

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

[#13]

I genuinely wish you well Joe

It was a pleasure to try and help you fix this ;), but we all failed

I really hope you have no issues with Sky and I'm very keen to see how you get on.

[#14]

I’m also going to jump ship, had issues like this in a previous house and went through the stress of trying to fix it last time that’s why I haven’t bothered having them send out engineers etc.

Can I just create a support ticket and link this thread explaining I want out of my contract?

If I’m being honest I will just cancel the direct debt and ignore any letters that get sent if not, I’m really not prepared to jump through hoops or pay any extra while these problems exist.

[#15]

From my experience and from reading around on these forums, you need to follow the correct procedures first, as in engineer visits etc, plus if this doesn't fix the issue(s) and all other options have been exhausted, then they may release you from your contract(s) penalty free.

You can however pay early termination fees and buy yourself out of the contract, but this is rather costly.

Cancelling the DD really isn't a good idea as you could end up with the possibility of bailiffs knocking on the door.

Joe and I did back flip through flaming hoops before they gave us the right to leave penalty free.