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My Ping and I

Plusnet Help Team
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Re: My Ping and I

Anyway, I've read a post today whereby a PN staff member has referred to a 200page BT Forum thread that is/was? discussing latency issues whilst other streaming takes place, the PN staff member also mentions BT are/have? looked at a data centre, could Anoush (or a.n.other) look into this to see if this thread is being linked to other reports?

I believe you're referring to This. As far as I'm aware we've not looked into this yet.

I'm going to raise this to our networks team today with the examples I've collated across our community forums and a link to the thread on the BT forums, although some examples probably aren't valid as they have other causes for the issue.

@jbligh87 I'd again recommend we get you back into the faults process as there appears to be something going on regarding the Openreach infrastructure in your case if your connection is dropping.

Let me know if you're in the master socket still first though.

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 Anoush Mortazavi
 Plusnet Help Team
DS
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Re: My Ping and I

Aye, that's the one. (I deleted cookies, cache, history etc (again) in trying to get my billing page to work) and thus forgot where I'd read it (I do a lot of reading btw, as you may have guessed).

Thanks for linking Thumbs Up

 

I am really starting to think this is another data centre issue, but am more than happy to be corrected. Do you know if Jono or Kelly is/are checking this out? If not I'd guess to say it might be worth giving them a gentle tap on the shoulder too. (unless is Kelly part of your Net team)

 

Joe's issues (as do the others on this thread alone) do ring some bells to my then situation. I would have some pretty bad streaming issues when my lad was attempting to game. I did quit gaming myself some time ago, but won't be going back to this now anyway.

 

I totally understand others might not be having the same issues elsewhere and it could be for other reasons Wink

 

fwiw. A previous post of mine in this thread where it looked like PN's DNS was introducing some latency appears to be a red herring after all, as repeat tests are not giving a consistent result - as in other DNS settings are peaking at (a low) 80ms at times..... but the only gamer here is on his hol's so can't load our connection up that way, bar things like Netflix etc. But as per the PN linked thread, the latency is also at Telehouse at times, the other place is the TBB server (last 2 hops) when using pingbox1.

 

edit. erm, not 80ms anymore, more like

554 ms 428 ms 221 ms peer2-xe8-0-2.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.126.157]

Plusnet Help Team
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Re: My Ping and I

I've held off on raising this with our suppliers quality assurance team to look into the S-VLAN side of things as my gut feeling (and JonoH) tells me to raise this with our networks and products teams first for further investigation which I've done now.

As a heads up I've not heard back from the marvel team yet, so I've sent another email to chase this up again.

As always I'll keep a close eye on this thread and will let everyone know as soon as I know more.

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 Anoush Mortazavi
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Re: My Ping and I

No idea if this is going to help or not....

But peer8 and peer7 are fine, it's just peer2 that thus far is giving me repeatable 'hassle'

eg-

  10 ms 10 ms 12 ms peer8-et-3-1-2.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.252.232]

  15 ms 11 ms 10 ms peer7-et-3-1-5.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.252.236]

407 ms 219 ms 206 ms peer2-xe8-0-2.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.126.157]

 

I really hope you find something

jbligh87
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Re: My Ping and I

To be honest, I'm waiting for a response which isn't something along the lines of: "Lets check at your end for the 6th time".

 

I can only tell you what the engineers tell me which is that the issue isn't at my end.

 

The socket I use is the same one I have used since I moved to this newly built house 3 years ago. I can connect to the main socket if you would like but all the engineers have tested the socket i'm using and have said its perfectly healthy

DS
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Re: My Ping and I

I for one can totally understand you Joe, having back flipped through flaming hoops myself. Your problem, like mine, is the issue of the dropping connection in addition to the latency issues.

At least by plugging the router into the test point and then waiting for it to drop again, this would give Plusnet the proof they need that these drops aren't being caused by the faceplate or any internal wiring. With that info, they would be able to fight in your corner should a no fault scenario occur.

I really would keep using the hub 6 though, as from my own experience it does seem to work better, unless Plusnet ask you to swap back to their router. Obviously the hub 6 could well be faulty, but I doubt it would be. My hub 6 did receive a firmware update the other day, so yours might have dropped for this?

Some of my previous Openreach engineers also told me my connection was fine, when clearly it wasn't. It was the last OR guy that reluctantly checked something I'd been telling them for years and found the blue beans on my line, since then (fingers crossed) it was fine for 30 days, then it did drop (for reasons unknown) and then again a day or so later (but for the firmware update).

At least by you connecting via the test point, if and when OR attend they can see it is in the test point and that must surely show them there is an issue, why else would we do this if it wasn't dropping.

Chances are OR will ask PN to make sure the usual checks have been completed before sending one of their guys/gals out.

As much as this is a pita, you've got to keep pushing forward. I'll almost quit, but glad I didn't.

 

jbligh87
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Re: My Ping and I

I get what your saying, the annoying thing is that when all of the previous engineers came out they had no context of why they were there, no access to my account's notes and no conversation with PN explain WHY they were there.

This was just a request from PN to run their checks on my connection and all followed a step by step checking process which inevitably lead all of them to say my connection is perfect and infact stronger than most (ignoring the fact that my strong connection is useless to me as a gamer with high and random ping spikes). They also checked all the sockets to check for issues - perfect.

None of them do 'deep dive testing' or anything more than the previous engineer because why would they, it's just another line check.

The last engineer went out of his way and from what I understand above his job role to confirm there was no issue involving BT getting from the box to my house and that my house was as sound as all the other engineers proclaimed. Even changing the card and port to a brand new one (not a spare one old one, new cards added) I believe this is generally not done. This was done purely because the engineer took a personal interest in understanding what the problem was, even going so far as to text me since closing his job call asking 'Did you ever get to the bottom of that connection issue, I'd love to understand what was causing it'

I wish I knew more about networks and the dark art of the internet connections because looking from my results and other's results posted here this looks blisteringly obvious that the issue is with PN's servers/gateways/ping hop points (insert technical terminology here) and not my socket -.-

I'm hoping these the avengers and the marvel team come back with answers that are beyond the scope of us being able to identify from my office and the wiring/sockets there in.

I will keep using the hub6, it generally feels more well put together with less intense spike and generally lower ping (even if these are only a couple of ms) and the frequency of drops seems less with this router.

Now, back to waiting with bated breath...
DS
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Re: My Ping and I

I get what your saying, the annoying thing is that when all of the previous engineers came out they had no context of why they were there, no access to my account's notes and no conversation with PN explain WHY they were there.

This is something I've raised before. The fact that each engineer mostly attends without prior knowledge as to why they're attending just creates an extra hurdle.

They will have access to some of the test results as they are logged on the OR systems.

I would always tell them the exact 'story' as soon as each engineer entered our home. Some would also call the previous engineer too.

 

This was just a request from PN to run their checks on my connection and all followed a step by step checking process which inevitably lead all of them to say my connection is perfect and infact stronger than most (ignoring the fact that my strong connection is useless to me as a gamer with high and random ping spikes). They also checked all the sockets to check for issues - perfect.

It is and it isn't. PN ask us to do these checks to rule out our side as being the cause, even if it worked fine a day before, things can become faulty the day after. They would (I guess) also pass the info onto the team at OR whom sort out the engineers to advise them that the customer has connected to the test point and that the connection is still dropping.

Some OR always blame a router when they can't find a fault, but you've got a few to prove them wrong Wink

 

None of them do 'deep dive testing' or anything more than the previous engineer because why would they, it's just another line check.

I have to agree. Some OR visits that I had were simply pointless - he plugged his gear in, it passed the test, nothing fixed, even though he watched the router reboot, he left . One had to get a notepad out to read how to use a piece of his own equipment - yes we all need to learn, but maybe refresh your memory before you enter a customers premises. I'm hoping in your case PN insist on a SFI engineer as they have greater knowledge and do more intensive testing. I have no idea why OR don't train each employee to the same higher level - probably profit margin plays a part here...?

 

The last engineer went out of his way and from what I understand above his job role to confirm there was no issue involving BT getting from the box to my house and that my house was as sound as all the other engineers proclaimed. Even changing the card and port to a brand new one (not a spare one old one, new cards added) I believe this is generally not done. This was done purely because the engineer took a personal interest in understanding what the problem was, even going so far as to text me since closing his job call asking 'Did you ever get to the bottom of that connection issue, I'd love to understand what was causing it

I also had a few good ones too. One did work on every join, the cabinet and the exchange and he did get my speed from roughly 18d/1.8u to around 33d/5.5u but it continued to drop. The last one did the blue beans (as I've already mentioned), but I honestly think the hub 6 is the real fix here. I'm still to put either of my PNH1's back on, more so to see if the drops start again.

In your case, it does seem odd that they moved you to stop the drops, but this caused latency, then back to the previous port both issues are present - to me, and I ain't no brain surgeon, tells me the ports/cards are where your issues lie.

 

I wish I knew more about networks and the dark art of the internet connections because looking from my results and other's results posted here this looks blisteringly obvious that the issue is with PN's servers/gateways/ping hop points (insert technical terminology here) and not my socket

Ignoring my thoughts on the cab ports/cards, then I'd also have to agree. I've now seen several traceroutes where the user has some delays at the 2nd hop (clearly those are on a static IP), in my case (being on a dynamic IP) I wouldn't see this on hop2 as static and dynamic IP's are routed differently within their network. I still think a data centre issue is playing a big part in all of this too, it's just finding whom owns that data centre...?

 

I'm hoping these the avengers and the marvel team come back with answers that are beyond the scope of us being able to identify from my office and the wiring/sockets there in

+1. IMHO there are a few users recently reporting latency issues, it all can't be at our end.

 

I will keep using the hub6, it generally feels more well put together with less intense spike and generally lower ping (even if these are only a couple of ms) and the frequency of drops seems less with this router.

That was what I found too.

 

Now, back to waiting with bated breath.

Just don't go one further and hold it

DS
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Re: My Ping and I

407 ms 219 ms 206 ms peer2-xe8-0-2.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.126.157]

Yesterday, the repeatable test to peer2 was always giving consistently high results.

But since testing today it has now become intermittent, thus some are now goodHuh

11 ms 12 ms 11 ms peer2-xe8-0-2.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.126.157]

And then they go back up

86 ms 163 ms 220 ms peer2-xe8-0-2.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.126.157]

 

Does this mean, that now it isn't all of the time, has something been done about it?

(or does it simply identify a congestion issue at Telehouse during peak time use....?)

Plusnet Help Team
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Re: My Ping and I

Hi guys.

I've been discussing this with one of our network engineers.

Could you copy and paste into a post fresh full traceroutes to pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com using a wired connection and with a little light/normal streaming in the background please?

@jbligh87@gdaviez@grantmdh please reboot your routers first as I've removed the static IPs we've added. As they haven't helped, I don't want them to cloud anything we see on a traceroute.

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 Anoush Mortazavi
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Re: My Ping and I

Just thought I'd give a benchmark Wink

Tracing route to pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com [80.249.99.164]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms BTHUB [192.168.1.254]
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 9 ms 8 ms * 137.hiper04.sheff.dial.plus.net.uk [195.166.143.137]
4 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 136.hiper04.sheff.dial.plus.net.uk [195.166.143.136]
5 9 ms 8 ms 8 ms core1-BE1.southbank.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.125.130]
6 10 ms 9 ms 9 ms peer8-et-3-1-2.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.252.232]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 9 ms 11 ms 9 ms po4-31.core-rs2.thdo.ncuk.net [80.249.97.85]
9 8 ms 9 ms 8 ms pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com [80.249.99.164]

 

DS
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Re: My Ping and I

The above result was using Quad 9 and Google DNS, the one below is using PN DNS:

Tracing route to pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com [80.249.99.164]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms bthub [192.168.1.254]
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 * 8 ms 8 ms 137.hiper04.sheff.dial.plus.net.uk [195.166.143.137]
4 11 ms 9 ms 9 ms 136.hiper04.sheff.dial.plus.net.uk [195.166.143.136]
5 9 ms 8 ms 8 ms core1-BE1.southbank.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.125.130]
6 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms peer8-et-3-1-2.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.252.232]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 34 ms 223 ms 224 ms po4-31.core-rs2.thdo.ncuk.net [80.249.97.85]
9 9 ms 8 ms 8 ms pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com [80.249.99.164]

 

I often see it higher at TBB's end (hops 8 & 9), so guess we can ignore thatWink

 

I did two more traceroutes, both using Q9's and G's, then PN DNS

The first (Q9 & G) were fine, the repeated PN DNS is now also fine

Tracing route to pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com [80.249.99.164]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms bthub [192.168.1.254]
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 * * 9 ms 137.hiper04.sheff.dial.plus.net.uk [195.166.143.137]
4 10 ms 9 ms 9 ms 136.hiper04.sheff.dial.plus.net.uk [195.166.143.136]
5 9 ms 8 ms 9 ms core1-BE1.southbank.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.125.130]
6 10 ms 9 ms 9 ms peer8-et-3-1-2.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.252.232]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 9 ms 9 ms 10 ms po4-31.core-rs2.thdo.ncuk.net [80.249.97.85]
9 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com [80.249.99.164]

 

Let's see what the other users on this thread look like.......

 

edit.

1 x mobile connected, in standby, nothing streaming

2 x YV PVR's, one on, not streaming, the other in standby

1 x laptop, wired, on these forums and used for traceroutes, nothing streaming

 

grantmdh
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Re: My Ping and I

Tracing route to pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com [80.249.99.164]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms <1 ms 1 ms dsldevice.lan [192.168.1.254]
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms 140.hiper04.sheff.dial.plus.net.uk [195.166.143.140]
5 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms 195.99.125.138
6 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms peer8-et-0-1-2.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.252.178]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 13 ms 12 ms 14 ms po4-31.core-rs2.thdo.ncuk.net [80.249.97.85]
9 10 ms 11 ms 10 ms pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com [80.249.99.164]

Trace complete.

 

Not sure whether the pro add-on you added is still on.

Plusnet Help Team
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Re: My Ping and I

Thanks for the traceroutes.

@grantmdh the one you've done actually looks perfectly fine. Was there anything streaming and gaming in the background? If not it would be good to see a traceroute while you're gaming and with the likes of Netflix on too.

As you've said on another thread the Pro Addon hasn't helped, I've removed this from your account now.

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 Anoush Mortazavi
 Plusnet Help Team
grantmdh
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Re: My Ping and I

@Gandalf 

Tracing route to pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com [80.249.99.164]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms dsldevice.lan [192.168.1.254]
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 10 ms 10 ms 11 ms 140.hiper04.sheff.dial.plus.net.uk [195.166.143.140]
5 12 ms 16 ms 10 ms 195.99.125.138
6 11 ms 12 ms 11 ms peer8-et-0-1-2.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.252.178]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 12 ms 14 ms 12 ms po4-31.core-rs2.thdo.ncuk.net [80.249.97.85]
9 19 ms 14 ms 10 ms pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com [80.249.99.164]

Trace complete.

 

This was with 3 twitchs open using about 24mbps and netflix streaming