My Ping and I

[#1]

Hi @jbligh87,

The Npcap Loopback Adapter was likely installed from when Wireshark or network monitoring software was installed on your device. Looking through this thread and the account, I cannot see confirmation that your equipment is connected to the test socket. Please connect your router to the test socket if it isn't already.

When retesting the line, we are seeing 3 errors occurring over a 15 minute period and errors are known for causing latency / performance issues. I have performed a trace route to the IP addresses where a spike in response times had occurred for you but was unable to replicate the issue. As we are detecting 3 errors, the increase in response times may be a symptom of an underlying line fault and I'm afraid the only option is to continue the investigation with our supplies.

Are you able to replace the DSL cable from the router to the test socket?
Could you perform these trace routes from another device also connected by Ethernet?

Once you have attempted these other troubleshooting steps (if you haven't already) please rerun the trace routes and retest your service.

Thank you.

[#2]

Ran two trace routes

re bbc - hops 2,4,5 and 6 could be questionable. Yours (IIRC) is the first one I've seen showing delays to hop2

re 1 device - hops 3,4 and 6 are good, but still showing a slight delay

re all - hop 3 only. So with more on the network, the better it gets? <insert confused look here>

Followed your advice and changed DNS settings

re DNS - hops 2 and 3 showing a delay.

<insert a totally baffled look here>

Your last image (query) is showing your current ethernet as network2, what was network?

(as in have you used a BT hub and then gone to a Plusnet hub - doubtful, but could an old network saved be fluffing this up somehow - again getting out of my knowledge)

When retesting the line, we are seeing 3 errors occurring over a 15 minute period and errors are known for causing latency / performance issues. I have performed a trace route to the IP addresses where a spike in response times had occurred for you but was unable to replicate the issue. As we are detecting 3 errors, the increase in response times may be a symptom of an underlying line fault and I'm afraid the only option is to continue the investigation with our supplies.

Ah, so a line fault might be doing this - my gut feeling, thus probably wrong, but if the AC balance was spiking and 'hitting' the router, would this cause the delays at the first hop?

[#3]

I don't know if this helps, this was mentioned waaay back over 2 months ago when this debacle first started but I'm aware almost everyone trying to help probably won't have seen every detail up until this point so:

My ping is relatively stable if I have nothing running (no Youtube, not Twitch, no downloads , no strain on the connection). I say relatively as I still get a spike every ~15 seconds these are pretty random in intensity. They can (and mostly are) spikes from 21ms to <200ms but sometimes the spikes really go wild and hit 1500ms, this usually kicks me off any game I'm playing lol.

Now, if I..

I play Youtube and I get spikes every couple of seconds

I play Youtube AND twitch and get get spikes every couple second and they are more intense

I play Youtube AND twitch and download something and my internet becomes barely usable to the point where web pages don't load or if they do its in some bizarre basic text mode that looses all format and shows only text.

My download speed is around 65-76mb so I should be able (and have for 3 years on the same connection prior to this event without any issue) do all these things at once (and on other devices) and yes my ping would rise from an average of 21ms to 50ms while I was downloading but it was steady, it wasn't wildly fluctuating.

This evening for example, my wife is playing xbox online with her friends, this means I can't even watch Youtube or I hear "Has the internet dropped again" from the other room as it kicks her from her game due to ms.  

I hope this behavior helps with trouble shooting, it means the results I get are pretty random, I could run a traceroute with nothing running and gets a peak ms of 19ms although it is rare. I could run it again 4 seconds later and get results like the ones I've posted.

With regards to the socket, the engineer(s) checked that when he came out and there are no issues with socket. I will try changing more cables when I get chance.

[#4]

Hi @jbligh87,

Thanks for providing this further context. Please let us know once you've been able to try changing the cables and whether or not it's resulted in any improvement on your end of things and we'll pick this back up for further review as soon as possible.

[#5]

It always does help going over old ground (well imho anyway;))

I have read through this a few times, to see if there's something we're missing. I can't spot what you're doing wrong, but thought (hard) about posting this as it won't fix your issue, but it might help...?

My ping is relatively stable if I have nothing running

If I go back in time, so was mine. It then went a very wobbly, but at this present time mine is pretty good whether my connection is idle or with multiple users caning the connection. My main problem is my line.

The changes we made was to 'retire' the powerline adapters, going to CAT7 ethernet, a different router and a new gaming rig my son and I recently built. I've done as much as I can do here. If my connection continues to drop again then there isn't much more I can do.

I say relatively as I still get a spike every ~15 seconds these are pretty random in intensity.

I'm starting to think either something on your network (although you only had one device directly cabled) or more probable is a line/connection issue, hence why I've mentioned a spike* hitting the router from something on your line/connection.

*in this case possibly a voltage in the line (normal btw) jumping too high (not normal)

They can (and mostly are) spikes from 21ms to <200ms but sometimes the spikes really go wild and hit 1500ms, this usually kicks me off any game I'm playing lol.

That's what put an end to my gaming. I had issues when we were with BT (adsl and fttc), that 'went away' when we went to $ky (adsl but LLU) but returned when coming back onto BT (but via PN on fttc). I spent months on trying to find a cause for this, but gave up. My son also quit gaming but recently went back online (mainly PC now). It was very much hit and miss but we then raised a fault (this was first raised in June of last year, but my ill health stopped me pursuing this until February of this year). In our case the cable from the cab to the pole (at the end of my drive) is not in great health, which very recently has had multiple engineers out working on it (it's aluminium and over 57 years old). The recent work has actually improved my sons gaming massively, but we're not out he woods yet.

Now, if I..

I play Youtube and I get spikes every couple of seconds

I play Youtube AND twitch and get get spikes every couple second and they are more intense

I play Youtube AND twitch and download something and my internet becomes barely usable to the point where web pages don't load or if they do its in some bizarre basic text mode that looses all format and shows only text.

We had exactly the same. The picture quality on YT was like watching it under water!! It's still early days but ours (at the time of posting) is working pretty well. Our connection is being moderately used right now and having carried out a tracert (during this reply) to these forums is showing me a maximum latency of only 11ms. So in our case, one could blame the line faults and something else that I'm going to mention in a mo.

My download speed is around 65-76mb so I should be able (and have for 3 years on the same connection prior to this event without any issue) do all these things at once (and on other devices) and yes my ping would rise from an average of 21ms to 50ms while I was downloading but it was steady, it wasn't wildly fluctuating.

Mine is (now after all the recent work) sitting at around 30Mbps. It used to be around 18-20Mbps with an upload 1.8Mbps or under. In comparison my upload is now around 5-6Mbps and we (thus far) can game, stream, browse, etc etc without seeing any latency issues. We've had crappy speeds since 2008 and only the last few months has this got better. I'm not holding my breath that this is cured though.

This evening for example, my wife is playing xbox online with her friends, this means I can't even watch Youtube or I hear "Has the internet dropped again" from the other room as it kicks her from her game due to ms. 

My missus doesn't do gaming, but my lad and I used to. Just my lad now, but my daughter can watch Netflix whilst he's 'screaming at the screen'. This is only recent mind you, as I too get the 'has it dropped again' way too often. I've only got 1d, 5h and 10mins uptime on my router so it's way too early to tell if the last engineer has actually fixed our connection for the last time or not.

One thing I will point out is that gaming, netflix and YT are all via a wired connection.

I hope this behavior helps with trouble shooting, it means the results I get are pretty random, I could run a traceroute with nothing running and gets a peak ms of 19ms although it is rare. I could run it again 4 seconds later and get results like the ones I've posted.

Now, I hope you didn't mind me waffling on, but this reply serves a purpose - you're not alone. If it turns out you also have a connection issue, then as much as it gets a pita, keep pushing, keep reporting, keep going.

This is the first time since 2008 that my connection has be sooo fast (yes I'd sooner get stability over speed). I did see the same you're now reporting, but atm it's the best it's ever been. The only things to change here recently(bar the engineers) is a new gaming rig and possibly more important is a better router - we're using a BT Hub 6 and it blows the socks off Plusnets router.

Anyway, if Plusnet say there isn't a line fault, then I'm as baffled as you. I'm gutted I can't actually help you fix this. It is odd though how the work on my line, cabinet and exchange cured my latency issues.

[#6]

I'm glad your in a better position now and thank you for all your suggestions.

I don't know what position I stand in to cancel my contract and attempt a different ISP. I mean I'm paying for the bee's knees connection and as you said, I'm watching youtube on 720p... in 2019.

I'd prefer to stay with PN, I've been with them for 3 years and had very few faults.

Where you said your line to the house was 57years old and sounds like (fingers crossed) was the point of strain on your connection, i'm in a new build house on a new estate so the line can only be around 4 years old at max.

Need to route around in the dreaded "Draw of old cables" to see if I can find an old power cable for the router to see if that helps if not, I'm at a complete loss.

I even had the engineer who came out last text me today intrigued if I'd found a fix

Again thanks for your help!

[#7]

Regarding the cancelling of the contract.

In my case - Due to how long my connection issues have been going on for, plus my cable fault, the latter has been quoted at £10,000 to replace, coupled with the fact there's the monetary reason for Openreach being reluctant to start digging, I already have me 'get out of jail free' card in writing from Plusnet.

So, your only hope is that something is found (out of your control) that can't or won't be fixed, or will take too long to fix, is likely to be your only way of escaping (others may give other methods to walk away penalty free)

You/I need to prove that these issues are not down to us or our gear.

I too would like to remain with Plusnet, the cable/connection will be my only reason for throwing the towel in.

I get yours is a newer cable, though that doesn't mean the developers used a good quality cable. Depending on where you're located (don't post it, we don't need to know) some developers ran the cabling in, for Openreach to snip snip crimp.

As long as the router is a far away from it's own PSU, you should be alright (ever wondered why the power leads are soo long - not for wrapping around itself but to get the router away from sources of interference).

I too have had some engineers do very little and say there's nowt wrong, but there was!!

I'm not giving up on your issue, just gonna have to do some thinking as to (why more so) you had losses to the router using pingplotter. Though

When retesting the line, we are seeing 3 errors occurring over a 15 minute period and errors are known for causing latency / performance issues.

that's really playing on my mind... IDK where this 15 mins could be coming from. Maybe agree with Plusnet to take every device off the router at an agreed time and see if they still see this 15 minute 'counter'.

[#8]

Hi Matt,

My internet is now dropping out while my wife is trying to work from home. This was the initial problem that when fixed caused the ping spikes to start. So now, I truly am back to square 1 but now with added ping spikes.

I can't try new cables as the ones I have are the only ones I've got. Can you please confirm what your next plan of action is.
I feel this either needs to be to send me a new router or confirm I can terminate my contract.

This is creeping up on 3 months with unreliable broadband.

Thanks,Joe

[#9]

Sorry to hear you're still having issues.

I've arranged for a new router to be sent out just in case it is a router issue.

You should receive it in the next few days

[#10]

As I get my text saying my router is on its way, my internet drops out again...

[#11]

More sods law than a coincidence me thinks.

Out as in the light goes amber (possibly with a red BB light)?

[#12]

Yea gave it 20mins and a reboot and it connects. Third time today

[#13]

Ouch!!

Been there myself too

Hoping a replacement router helps, though the bank holiday is an added delay for that too.

[#14]

Hi Matt,

New router turned up today. Plugged it in and I am still getting ping spikes, I ran some tracert to bbc.co.uk (image attached) and as you can see this issue is still there somewhere...

I don't know if its because it's the middle of the day and everyone is at work or the new router/cables but the the spikes don't seem as intense. I will run it again tonight and see if they start going mad again confirming that the router/cable change hasn't achieved anything.

Can you please let me know what your next plan of action is as I can't do anything else from my side...

Thanks, Joe

EDIT: added more screenshots of ping tests through different method

[#15]

Thanks for getting back to us @jbligh87

Those traceroutes and pingplotters don't look too bad but BBC rate ping traffic which can skewer the results

I'm not sure if we've asked this before but can you try carrying out the tests to pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com ?