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Moving to Fibre: filtering at the master socket and locating the router

n03lm
Newbie
Posts: 5
Registered: 04-09-2015

Moving to Fibre: filtering at the master socket and locating the router

I currently have my Home phone extensions filtered off at the BT Master Socket with a separate dedicated bit of phone cable to take the unfiltered signal to the my Gigabit Ethernet ADSL router which is in the same room as my computer. Can anyone clarify how this might work if I upgrade to fibre. Can I locate the BT openreach box next to my existing Router ? at the end of the unfiltered data cable? or do BT replace the entire master box again?
I'm hoping to try and keep the router as I've been advised that plusnet are unable to supply a Gigabit Router and the router has a EWAN port (http://uk.tp-link.com/products/details/cat-15_TD-W8970.html) which posts elsewhere on these forums have suggested would still work for Fibre if I use the EWAN port. I don't really want to have to surface mount the TWO 10 meter+ CAT5E cables around the inside of the house that would be needed to support my computer and the NAS I have if I were forced to move the router to next to the BT master socket. [Background: the computer as several Terabytes of photo storage and backup over 100Mb wired Ethernet takes around 5days which is why I moved to gigabit Ethernet where it takes a couple of hours - suggestions that I fit wireless card to the computer and the NAS are not welcome]
Thanks in advance.
11 REPLIES
Community Veteran
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Re: Moving to Fibre: filtering at the master socket and locating the router

One option is to have the modem next to the socket and have a single feed to the router
I appreciate that it would need a new cable but that may be the simpler way of doing it
Of course you could try using your existing cable to locate the modem next to your router after the BT engineer has gone and see what the effect is. To an extent the effect will depend on the quality of cable you used
Community Veteran
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Re: Moving to Fibre: filtering at the master socket and locating the router

To add a little to Jim's suggestion (which is your best bet):
You will be provided with a BT VDSL modem which you connect to the router by Ethernet. If the cable you are using at the moment is good quality I wonder if you could get away with changing the ends to make it an Ethernet cable which would save removing and replacing it?
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
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ChrisWoods
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Re: Moving to Fibre: filtering at the master socket and locating the router

Quote from: spoon
To add a little to Jim's suggestion (which is your best bet):
You will be provided with a BT VDSL modem which you connect to the router by Ethernet. If the cable you are using at the moment is good quality I wonder if you could get away with changing the ends to make it an Ethernet cable which would save removing and replacing it?

Won't fly, Cat5e is 4 pair. UTP is... One pair. And unshielded. 100-baseTX allowed 2 pair but is rubbish. Gigabit requires all four conductor pairs.
http://www.howtogeek.com/70494/what-kind-of-ethernet-cat-5e6a-cable-should-i-use/
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-2024722/cat5-cat5e-cat6-pair-transmit-recieve.html
Site the ECI (Openreach) modem by the master socket - less chance of RF / EM pickup on the cable from faceplate to modem. Keep the modem phone cable and power cables as far apart as possible and avoid running them in parallel - if they have to cross, make sure they intersect at right angles. Then just run a half decent STP or S/UTP Cat5e cable to your router location and enjoy the speeds Smiley
n03lm
Newbie
Posts: 5
Registered: 04-09-2015

Re: Moving to Fibre: filtering at the master socket and locating the router

Thanks Jim, no idea about the cable quality it was fitted to the house by BT at the time it was built.
@spoonwhittler it is only a 4 core cable surely I'll need all 8 cores to make it an ethernet cable ? also the VDSL modem that plus net provide sucks (only 100Mb) which is my I want to keep my router and connect via ethernet.
Now wondering if I can use the cables in place to get them to move the master socket into the computer room with just a joint at current master socket and then bring the phone line back to the current master socket for onward distribution; there are TWO parallel phone cables going form master socket to computer room as first owner had two lines there; I've just uses one for phone and one for data having filtered things at master socket.
n03lm
Newbie
Posts: 5
Registered: 04-09-2015

Re: Moving to Fibre: filtering at the master socket and locating the router

Thanks Chris, that is the problem I can't run Cat 5e cable around the inside of house as it is modern build and no access to any spaces to route it ( unlike my last place that had a 5 foot walkspace underneath so laying cat 5 around was easy - and needed given the 2 foot thick wifi impenetrable granite walls). my other half would not approve of surface mounted cat 5e. looks like hopes of fibre dashed again - having spent last 6months with digitalscotland saying chance of fibre broadband was nil as entire village was on exchange only lines.
n03lm
Newbie
Posts: 5
Registered: 04-09-2015

Re: Moving to Fibre: filtering at the master socket and locating the router

It's frustrating that in modern builds they didn't just use UTP all over like most office buildings. thanks for the tips about cable types Chris those are good links.
Anyone know if the "fibre" master box is much different form a properly ADSL filtered faceplate NTE5 master box ? do they change that or do they just add the new openreach router to the unfiltered side ? - which might make Jim's idea more viable.
jafreer
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Re: Moving to Fibre: filtering at the master socket and locating the router

I would just try siting the modem in the computer room using the existing cable, at least as a first option. Usually a new MK3 faceplate will be fitted, with the filter built in. The AB terminals (unfiltered) can be used to connect the existing cable that goes to the computer room.
As the other posters correctly point out, depending on the quality of the cable (and in particular, depending on whether it is twisted pair or flat), there could be losses as the VDSL2 signal uses frequencies up to 17 MHz.
But as with all things, I would give it a go first using existing cabling. You can try a test where you connect the modem directly to the master socket and see what difference it makes as compared to using the extension cable. That will guide you as to whether to use the existing cable.
I wouldn't go down the route of moving the master socket as you want the filter as close to the point where the line enters your property. The other issue is that if the master socket is moved using the existing cabling (and it is flat cable), you gain nothing other than you have moved the filter further along the line.
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Re: Moving to Fibre: filtering at the master socket and locating the router

Quote from: Chris
Won't fly, Cat5e is 4 pair. UTP is... One pair. And unshielded. 100-baseTX allowed 2 pair but is rubbish. Gigabit requires all four conductor pairs.

1. Modem to router doesn't need to be gigabit!
2. Telephone extension cable comes in more varieties than Heinz - the cable I have stashed away in my garage is 4 pair. Also it's not unknown for people to use cat 5 cable for telephone extensions.
It was just a possibility I was suggesting.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
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Community Veteran
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Re: Moving to Fibre: filtering at the master socket and locating the router

Quote from: n03lm
Anyone know if the "fibre" master box is much different form a properly ADSL filtered faceplate NTE5 master box ? do they change that or do they just add the new openreach router to the unfiltered side ? - which might make Jim's idea more viable.

The BT engineer will install the latest filtered NTE5 faceplate and provide you with a VDSL modem.
You could make your existing cable a data only cable by connecting it to the data terminals (usually labelled A+B) on the back of the filtered faceplate. You'd have to replace the socket at the other end to a data type socket. That would mean you'd lose the telephone extension at the other end.
If you order the data extension kit when you order the FTTC, the engineer should do all that for you and gratefully use your cable as it will save him the bother of running the cable himself!
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
n03lm
Newbie
Posts: 5
Registered: 04-09-2015

Re: Moving to Fibre: filtering at the master socket and locating the router

@Spoon whittler: thanks that is useful. at present I have TWO phone cables running form master socket to the computer room. One for the phone and one for the A+B terminals from the unfiltered ADSL signal so it sounds like if I ask for the data extension option and then get him to use the current A+B data cable for it I should have exactly the same set-up as I have now for ADSL sorted  Smiley I already have a twin output socket in the computer room.
Thanks all for help.
jjc
Grafter
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Registered: 16-01-2015

Re: Moving to Fibre: filtering at the master socket and locating the router

If you ask the OR engineer nicely they may adjust the way the cabling works, the guy who did mine had no problem doing it for me. If the link cable is 4 core it is no problem.
John