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Moving the openreach vdsl master point

superuser
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Registered: 10-10-2015

Moving the openreach vdsl master point

I'd like to move my openreach modem and router, so I guess I'll need to convert my alternative location socket to support the bt modem?
Or could it just plug in with an adaptor and filter added?
Running a CAT 5 to the other location is not an option
Thanks for any advice
14 REPLIES
rookey
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Registered: 23-01-2009

Re: Moving the openreach vdsl master point

vicky1959
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Registered: 14-03-2014

Re: Moving the openreach vdsl master point

Dunno why they call it special , its a basic copper wire from pole to plate,plate to modem,personally think that all Fibre Connections should be cabinet to Home  to Modem should be fibre to,then it would be a " True Fibre Connection"
superuser
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Registered: 10-10-2015

Re: Moving the openreach vdsl master point

superuser
Grafter
Posts: 72
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Registered: 10-10-2015

Re: Moving the openreach vdsl master point

Quote from: rookey
This what you can do
http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/13727/~/how-to-remove-the-special-fibre-faceplate

So I'm thinking this means I can actually move the bt modem and the router to my extension socket
Put a filter in the extension and plug the modem in to the filter?
Or is it not that simple?
Other posts talk about using a vdsl compatible router to dispense with the bt modem, which I assume means it must just plug in to a phone socket, be it master or extension?
Community Veteran
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Moving the openreach vdsl master point

No it's not that simple.
So far you've not been given good advise.
I take it from the way you phrased your OP that you have an existing extension socket which is where you want to put the modem (& router)?
I assume at present the modem is plugged in at the master socket into the vDSL SSFP that's been fitted.
Where is the Router at present and what's the primary reason for wanting to move the modem? Why isn't a Cat5 cable an option?
The other question if it's an existing extension socket that you want to use is what standard is the extension wiring - can you look at the terminals on the rear of the extension socket and see if you have a Blue+white trace on terminal 2, a White+blue trace on terminal 5 and probably an Orange+white trace on terminal 3. Describe anything that is different, and any other wires/colours
superuser
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Re: Moving the openreach vdsl master point

Quote from: Anotherone
I take it from the way you phrased your OP that you have an existing extension socket which is where you want to put the modem (& router)?
I assume at present the modem is plugged in at the master socket into the vDSL SSFP that's been fitted.

Where is the Router at present and what's the primary reason for wanting to move the modem? Why isn't a Cat5 cable an option?
The other question if it's an existing extension socket that you want to use is what standard is the extension wiring - can you look at the terminals on the rear of the extension socket and see if you have a Blue+white trace on terminal 2, a White+blue trace on terminal 5 and probably an Orange+white trace on terminal 3. Describe anything that is different, and any other wires/colours

Correct
The router is with the BT modem near the Master socket
Routing CAT 5 would be very difficult
Existing socket is just 2 wires (Bell wire to be exact) That used to run ADSL and gave me very good results.
dick:green Quote edited so it doesn't break forum rules.
superuser
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Re: Moving the openreach vdsl master point

Just a guess. But behind the new face plate there will be a pair of wires coming to the rj45 connection that feeds the modem.
Could those be paired up to the two wires that feed the extension where I would prefer the modem to be?
Community Veteran
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Moving the openreach vdsl master point

I was about to post as you posted, the answer is there is terminals, read on......
Quote from: superuser
Existing socket is just 2 wires (Bell wire to be exact) That used to run ADSL and gave me very good results.

Just to clarify, as your remark "Bell wire to be exact" throws in slight doubt, I assume you mean the bell-wire is disconnected, which I also assume you appreciate needs to be the case. But also to be crystal clear the wire colours need to be as mentioned, to indicate twisted pair wiring, otherwise your Fibre sync speed can be seriously messed up and leave you vulnerable to interference, and there's no messing with Fibre DLM as there was with ADSL.
If the vDSL plate that's fitted is a Mk3 (or even a Mk2) - this is marked on the top RH corner of the plate, they have a common-mode filter fitted as well as the filtering for the phone socket. You would be best to take advantage of that by connecting your extension wiring to the A&B terminals on the vDSLplate (I assume they are currently on the removable front plate) rather than just removing the vDSL plate. You will of course need a good quality "dangly" (rat's tail) filter at your extension socket. If the vDSL plate is a Mk1 (no markings), then you could just remove it or still connect to the A&B terminals if you want a phone socket without a dangly filter at the master.
(I should also mention, that extension socket should be a proper extension socket - no bell capacitor & resistor fitted).
Another possible option (again assumes your extension wiring is CW1308 twisted pair) then you will have a spare Orange pair (maybe even a green pair if it's 3 pair cable) and you could use the spare pair to connect to the A&B terminals on the vDSL plate and at the extension end fit an RJ11 socket to this pair, leaving the existing phone socket and wiring connected as is. There wouldn't be any need for the "dangly" filter in this case. You can get a phone socket plate with an RJ11 jack and a BT jack on them if you don't want to mount a separate RJ11 socket and note I'm not talking about one that is a filtered plate, although that is another option.
This 3rd option would be to have the the extension wiring connected to the A&B terminals on the vDSL plate and replace the extension socket with a quality filtered EXTENSION socket (not a master - you don't want a second bell capacitor on the main wiring) which has the twin RJ11 and Phone sockets on the plate. This would save using a dangle filter.
Note, in all this, your final sync speeds may not be quite as good as you would get if you kept the modem at the master, they may be fine. That's a risk you have to find out be trying it. HTH.
Edit: I should mention that you will need some sort of IDC Tool to connect the wiring to the various terminals if you go down that route, don't use screwdrivers or other implements poked directly in the jaws of the terminal otherwise you can end up with a poor connection if it opens the jaws. The terminal is an "Insulation Displacement Connector" which grips the wire. Guidance can be given on where to get a suitable tool (not the overpriced plastic things at DIY sheds). If you are nimble fingered etc, some people have managed to push the wires down by pushing the wire outside either side of the jaws with something like tweezers or whatever.
superuser
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Re: Moving the openreach vdsl master point

It is MK3
I'm away on business until next week but will check details then.
The extension is actually Bell Wire run directly from the master, installed during the build, some years ago.
So, I appreciate your concern about the quality of the connection. But tests on the line always returned excellent margins when it was running ADSL.
You are saying then, that the pair of wires that feed that extension could be disconnected from the phone side of the mater and be paired up with the vdsl pair in the master? And use a dangly filter, then connect up the bt modem and the router as is.
I am considering running CAT5 but it has to go outside. In such a case. I assume it wouldn't matter if I do either
1. Run CAT 5 to move the modem and router
2. Run CAT 5 to supply ethernet from the router
Community Veteran
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Re: Moving the openreach vdsl master point

Well I'm glad I queried what you actually meant by "Bell wire to be exact" especially as there was no mention of colours etc. And.....OMG!  I not sure if your understanding of "bell-wire" in a Phone/Broadband context is what we normally mean. It's the wire normally connected to terminal 3 and provides the AC ringing current (via a capacitor from the B wire) to the bell or ringer in the phone. Most modern phones don't need it (they have one built in), but some do, in any event plug-in filters generate a very local one for any instruments that do need it.
The "bell-wire" is not part of a balanced pair, and it's this connection to the B wire via the ring capacitor that makes it act like an aerial picking up all sorts of interference especially MW/AM propagation dusk to dawn which reduces SNRM on broadband, sometimes to the point where the sync drops. One can either disconnect/not connect it or filter it centrally for all phone extensions - the latter is one of the things the filtered faceplates do.
Now your "(Bell wire to be exact)".
If it is a flat, figure 8 construction as it's called, where the wires run side by side such as like this then it's a definite no-no for any vDSL (FTTC) wiring (except as for you filtered phone extension perhaps).
If however it's twisted like this (ignore the colours) then you may get away with no issues. This is because any radiated interference that one wire picks up is cancelled out by the opposing current in the other wire - see here for a simplistic explanation. Although that example is audio, the principle is exactly the same for higher frequencies - just the cable quality and construction become more significant.
If you have the flat type, you certainly would not have got the best performance from your ADSL connection as you might otherwise have done, you may have found it what you thought was quite good, but that would be somewhat short of the best depending on your distance from the exchange. See an example of modern CW1308 standard telephone cable.
It's a shame that when you initially had FTTC, you didn't have your Master socket shifted to where the extension is (BTOR's external cable is of course weather and UV resistant), or alternatively had the data extension kit installed (twisted pair wiring to an RJ11 socket within 30m of the master).
Your best option at present would undoubtedly be leave the modem at the master. Using Cat5 to the extension would be the next best thing, internally if possible because of the weather aspects, is it that difficult to run the same route as the bell wire?
btw, the A&B terminals on the vDSL SSFP aren't a vdsl "pair" (of wires) they are connected within the moulding of the filter plate (in a similar way that terminal 2,3,4,5 are on the removable front plate of the NTE5a.
superuser
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Registered: 10-10-2015

Re: Moving the openreach vdsl master point

Let me double check all the facts and get back in a day or two
A small part of a CAT 5 would have to run outside
Community Veteran
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Re: Moving the openreach vdsl master point

No problem.
superuser
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Re: Moving the openreach vdsl master point

IN the end. I didn't move it, but rather moved the modem and router by running a new RJ11 cable to get the BT modem in a new location and then some new CAT5 to get the router relocated
All is well and speed is good
Community Veteran
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Re: Moving the openreach vdsl master point

As long as that RJ11 cable was twisted pair, you should be find going forward then.