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Locked in to 40/20 and it seems no way out

Calligrapher
Newbie
Posts: 8
Registered: 31-10-2009

Locked in to 40/20 and it seems no way out

After problems with a router which dropped the dsl every few minutes the work done and the wonderfully short time taken to sort it out by Plusnet and by Openreach, I finally purchased a Billion BiPAC 8800AXL from Broad Band Buyer. This has given me an absolutely rock solid connection, day after day.
BUT my profile would appear to be locked on 40/20 following one of the resets done by an Openreach engineer. My profile should be 80/20. I know I cannot get 80/20 because of my distance from the cabinet. My 'clean' tags are  Download: 38.1 Mbps - 55.8 Mbps / Upload: 8.9 Mbps - 14.5 Mbps. My Modem indicates that 51206 kbps down is achievable with 13424 kbps up. My actual up speed is 13231, very close to the achievable and to the best 'clean' speed. My down speed is 39994, not a penny more, not a penny less. By my calculations applying the same percentage achieved up, my down speed should be around 50470. A request to Plusnet to reprofile me back to 80/20 was met with, 'just be happy with what you've got'. If my connection is capable of more and I am paying for it, I would like whatever little speed increase I can get. How do I get the block removed, any suggestions?
Trevor
17 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,274
Thanks: 339
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Registered: 24-10-2013

Re: Locked in to 40/20 and it seems no way out

what does http://speedtest.btwholesale.com/ say? (do the further diagnostics)
and what does https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed say ?
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,136
Thanks: 2
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Locked in to 40/20 and it seems no way out

Plusnet can't control your fibre sync speeds, if you are on a 40/20 profile you can still sync at over 40Mbps but your speeds will be limited by the traffic management platform.
It's possible you've been put on to a banded profile by the DLM, which I think Plusnet can check for you.
If your connection has been solid the DLM should undo it's restrictions over time, but as for how much time nobody really seems to have a solid answer for that.
F9 member since 4 Sep 1999
F9 ADSL customer since 27 Aug 2004
DLM manages your line the same way DRM manages your rights.
Look at all the pretty graphs! (now with uptime logging!)
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 17,646
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Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: Locked in to 40/20 and it seems no way out

Having performed a line test it your line is currently banded at 20-40Mb, this means your line won't connect any higher than this unless the banding gets removed. If your line proves to be stable as detected by the DLM equipment then the banding will be removed, this can take a couple of weeks though. However I can't see that your line has ever connected higher than 40Mb, so I'd suggest that it's possibly the highest speed you're going to see.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,686
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Registered: 10-04-2007

Re: Locked in to 40/20 and it seems no way out

If that is the case and you are on Fibre Extra (80/20) a downgrade to standard Fibre (40/20) should be considered to save money.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
Community Veteran
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Registered: 10-04-2007

Re: Locked in to 40/20 and it seems no way out

Chris, if the old modem was the problem that led to the banding, then he replaced it, how do you know whether the BIPAC would allow sync above 40?
I think your comment about this being the highest he might see is a little suspect!
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
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Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: Locked in to 40/20 and it seems no way out

If the lower speed was caused by the router (and yes, rereading the achievable rate it might have been) then the DLM will remove the banding in time and allow the higher speeds.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff
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Registered: 29-01-2009

Re: Locked in to 40/20 and it seems no way out

Remember that if DLM has banded the line, it has probably also turned on FEC+Interleaving too. If DLM chooses to remove banding, it might not immediately also choose to remove the FEC+interleaving setting - so speeds might not improve all the way.
Also remember that when DLM has intervened and put FEC+Interleaving onto a line, the Openreach Huawei modem starts to report excessively high "attainable" speeds; once DLM de-intervenes, the actual speed improvement only tends to be about half of the suggested improvement. We have no idea whether the Billion makes the same error of judgement.
Plusnet Customer
Using FTTC since 2011. Currently on 80/20 Unlimited Fibre Extra.
Calligrapher
Newbie
Posts: 8
Registered: 31-10-2009

Re: Locked in to 40/20 and it seems no way out

Herewith the statistics page
Community Veteran
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Re: Locked in to 40/20 and it seems no way out

Thanks. That tells me three things...
1. The SNRM value isn't very much above 6dB.
If DLM removed the banding alone, that would allow the modems to target the standard 6dB,  and you'd probably only gain around 1Mbps max.
2. DLM has indeed turned on FEC and interleaving (INP>0 and delay>0).
This is currently using (R=10) bytes out of every (N=42) bytes as self-correction overhead, or about 24%. Fairly high.
It looks very much like you'd need DLM to remove this before you'd get the bulk of your speed improvement. The likelihood of this depends on some further statistics that you don't show - the number of ES's over a 24 hour period.
3. DLM has set INP to 3.5
DLM has been seen, so far, to set values of 3.0 and 4.0, but not 3.5. I have only seen this once before, by someone reporting that they were told (by an Openreach engineer) that their cabinet is trialling vectoring.
Perhaps that is the case here. Or perhaps DLM is using new settings that haven't been seen much.
Plusnet Customer
Using FTTC since 2011. Currently on 80/20 Unlimited Fibre Extra.
Calligrapher
Newbie
Posts: 8
Registered: 31-10-2009

Re: Locked in to 40/20 and it seems no way out

OH Frames 732514 213842
OH Frame Errors 0 4
RS Words 281130417 3924030
RS Correctable Errors 6128 35
RS Uncorrectable Errors 0 0
HEC Errors 0 0
OCD Errors 0 0
LCD Errors 0 0
Total Cells 138208575 0
Data Cells 34218 0
Bit Errors 0 0
Total ES 0 3
Total SES 0 0
Total UAS 28
Any help? This is the bit I couldn't pdf.
Trevor
Community Veteran
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Registered: 29-01-2009

Re: Locked in to 40/20 and it seems no way out

Those are the ones, but it looks like you've reset the line since the PDF was done - the "OH Frames" counter has dropped a lot.
Essentially, you want to watch the "Total ES" value (first column should be the downstream value).
If this value accumulates over (I believe) 2,800 in a 24 hour period, then DLM will usually choose to intervene (or intervene further). To de-intervene, or reduce intervention, the ES value has to accumulate less than 288 over a 24-hour period ... and probably has to do this for a good period - days or even months.
Plusnet Customer
Using FTTC since 2011. Currently on 80/20 Unlimited Fibre Extra.
Calligrapher
Newbie
Posts: 8
Registered: 31-10-2009

Re: Locked in to 40/20 and it seems no way out

Thanks for your help on this. For the very first time with this modem, it decided to drop the connection for a few seconds around 1 pm yesterday which would account for the disparity in the OH figures.
Over the following 29 hours my ES figures are down - 22, up - 201.
This seems to fit with the lower parameters for a lesser intervention by the DLM.
BTW it seems the Billion can adjust the SNR either manually or automatically.
Trevor
Community Veteran
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Thanks: 4
Registered: 29-01-2009

Re: Locked in to 40/20 and it seems no way out

DLM can be pretty slow to remove intervention; it wants to see good results for quite a few days ... and if there is some sort of bad day in the middle, it needs to see even more good days subsequently. Patience is a virtue!
Upstream, I should have mentioned, has had no DLM intervention (INP=0, delay=0), but the modems have negotiated some amount of FEC protection (R=16) anyway, but without interleaving (D=1); this seems to be a fairly common occurrence on the upstream. It means you are using (R=16) bytes out of every (N=255) bytes for the self-correction data, so around 6% of your upstream bandwidth is being used up this way.
The modem might let you adjust the SNR, but does the DSLAM pay any attention during a sync? It might not do. In any case, there is probably more to be gained from getting DLM to de-intervene than would be gained from adjusting the target SNR down; in fact, setting a higher target SNR  in order to foster better error figures, in order to persuade DLM to leave you alone, might give you the best speed overall.
Otherwise, how is the 8800AXL? Does it give more statistics data than you've shown (such as 15 minute and 24 hour counters)? Either via the GUI or via telnet?
If there were any available 6 weeks ago, I'd have probably bought one for the ability to use a 4G modem. As none were available, I re-flashed my existing router with something open-source that let me do the same. But I'd really want access to the full statistics.
Plusnet Customer
Using FTTC since 2011. Currently on 80/20 Unlimited Fibre Extra.
Community Veteran
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Registered: 24-10-2013

Re: Locked in to 40/20 and it seems no way out

are we forgetting that DLM has been pulled by BT due to the recent court case against them?
i was under the impression that DLM in fibre cabinet was no longer active (until the came up with an alternate system).?