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Leading question about Fibre Broadband speeds... BT vs Plusnet

DS
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Re: Leading question about Fibre Broadband speeds... BT vs Plusnet

Hmm, I guess you could ask the Openreach engineer to carry out an AC balance test.

I can't recall my dB 'level', but it was low and I had a low sync speed. Then after he fiddled with the cables he got the dB level better which gave a faster speed.

I had to do my own research at the time but a reading of less than 50dB was considered low and a reading of over 60dB is good.

(but I could be totally wrong)

 

JonesTheSteam
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Re: Leading question about Fibre Broadband speeds... BT vs Plusnet

From what I have read (if I’m reading it right) is if you do have a stable line and a modem that allows it the lower you can drop the signal to noise ratio (SNR) the faster your downloads should be. The clearest explanation I found was here:

https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/SNR-tweak

The odd thing for me is since my 200,000 FEC errors in 10 minutes to my 8 FEC errors in 10 minutes my line has (to me) been remarkably stable and error free. So much so I have managed to reduce my SNR from a high of around 13dB to it’s current setting of 4dB.

What that hasn’t done however is give me a any boost in download speed worth shouting about unfortunately.

DS
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Re: Leading question about Fibre Broadband speeds... BT vs Plusnet

I'll hold my hands up, using different routers/modems to manually adjust the SNR is something I've never tried. Hopefully others that have may offer advice.....

 

Regarding the low speed - again based on my experience, what doesn't help is what OR tend to do - they come to the property and more often then not they'll carry out a quick remote test (before actually knocking on the door), which sometimes can make it look like all's well. So ideally have some speed test results already done before s/he arrives, then sow then these results. I was running routerstats on my H1 and thus could see when they tested my line before each of them knocked;).

If they also see a lower than expected speed result on Tuesday, try and kindly persuade him/her to then go back to each cable joint and see where the speed increases - then s/he should work on the 'slow' side.

 

The DLM nudging the SNR down is normal - with time and a stable connection is should hopefully settle around 3dB.

dws1900
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Re: Leading question about Fibre Broadband speeds... BT vs Plusnet

@DS 

Depending on the router, the line quality and the dslam, mine defaults to 6db (I can and did adjust it on adsl) but now goes to 3db or occasionaly 4db on connection, with no intervention by me.

Of course my dslam is made by a company we must not mention Smiley and the router does not use broadcom chips afaik.

DS
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Re: Leading question about Fibre Broadband speeds... BT vs Plusnet

My line couldn't cope with a 3dB 'target', this was confirmed on BT, then Sky and Plusnet were not so sureLips_are_sealed

But until recently, my SNR could drop to 0.8dB and the H1 would cough and poop itself. Since putting my H6 online I've seen the SNR go as low as 2.2dB but not seen it go any lower - but the last OR guy did cut some blue beans out the circuit, so it's possible this fixed my SNR issue.

JonesTheSteam
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Re: Leading question about Fibre Broadband speeds... BT vs Plusnet

Well the situation has taken yet another dramatic turn and but one thing is consistent... I haven’t got a clue what happens next.

The last Openreach engineer to arrive at my property told me something rather surprising... that multiple houses and businesses on my street are having broadband issues and they are all supplied by the same cabinet and there is no further capacity as the street is maxed out.

So the next leading question is:

What happens if Openreach infrastructure is at fault (and it is not just a case of an easily swappable cabinet component) it’s actually a case of a complete, and no doubt costly technology refresh is required?

We are in an area that is scheduled to get a FTTP rollout but no dates have been confirmed.

Does anybody have any knowledge or experience of anything even close to a similar situation to this?

DS
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Re: Leading question about Fibre Broadband speeds... BT vs Plusnet

Well as it's multiple users from the same cabinet then I'd have thought they'd be duty bound to replace the faulty gear, even if that meant putting a new cab next to it, to allow for spare capacity, thus future proofing it. Yes it'll cost them in the short term but long term you'd not need to keep calling them out, thus in the end it would more than likely cost them less than the repeat visits.

 

If I owned Openreach I'd splash the cash, but we all know what their owners are like....Lips_are_sealed

 

Plusnet may be able to speak to 'their suppliers' (some staff don't/won't/daren't name them), Hope 'n' Pray, and see if there's any plans to do anything or nothing at all.

 

 

JonesTheSteam
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Re: Leading question about Fibre Broadband speeds... BT vs Plusnet

Well I am hoping that there is an obligation somewhere in the small print of the contract between Plusnet and Openreach but so far I am not getting a warm, fuzzy feeling when I ask a direct question about physical infrastructure replacement.

I can see how this has potentially complicated matters in one respect but their answers seem a little evasive at best so I'm not sure even they know what really needs to happen in this situation.

I wouldn't mind £1 for every time I've heard somebody say... I have never seen a problem like this before...
Gandalf
Plusnet Help Team
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Re: Leading question about Fibre Broadband speeds... BT vs Plusnet

Sorry for the issues with your line.

I can see the engineer who went out last Tuesday advised that if the problem continued then the next step would be to open a REIN investigation to investigate further. So far your speeds seem to be holding steady at 33mbps with no drops over the past 2 days. If things start dropping again, we'll need to arrange another engineer visit to start a REIN case.

Let us know how things go over the next few days.

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 Anoush Mortazavi
 Plusnet Help Team
JonesTheSteam
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Re: Leading question about Fibre Broadband speeds... BT vs Plusnet

We have already been down the REIN road several times and I now believe this has been discounted even by the Openreach REIN help desk themselves as the last engineer called them when he visited and they have no report of REIN on that circuit.

I have isolated my router on a filtered UPS and run it with the entire electrical supply to the house turned off to prove there is no internal electrical interference and it had no positive effect on my download speeds.

After the engineer left on the 23rd May he reduced the noise and FEC errors on my line from over 200,000 in 10 minutes to 8 in 10 minutes as there was interference on my connection but not at my property.
After his visit my line was stable at 4db when previously I had to get closer to 13db for any kind of stability.

If there is external interference that might be a different matter but how could two houses either side of me on BT Fibre have 40mbps+ download speeds when I was getting as low as 12Mbps when all this started?

Also if it actually was REIN causing my issue, why are there multiple issues being reported along the length of the road I live on?

So unless Openreach can literally bring out a REIN wizard who can detect and channel electrical interference can we now please not even mention REIN again and possibly start looking at perhaps a wider issue?
Jubby
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Re: Leading question about Fibre Broadband speeds... BT vs Plusnet

Hello @JonesTheSteam,

After checking the history of the fault, I can see that a REIN investigation has already taken place and it was determined that the FEC errors stopped occurring when the main power feed to your property was turned off. As you have tested with a UPS and the line has remained stable when the mains power is on, this cannot be this source that is the cause of REIN.

 

With regards to the properties either side of yours, the source of interference may be near the routing of your line rather than your two neighbors. However, we cannot be certain of this without our suppliers continuing the investigation.

 

Your road may be affected by a certain fault but our suppliers haven't provided us any information to say that this is the case. Checking my emails from Openreach incident team, I can see occasions where service outages impacted some end users but there is no confirmation of exactly what the issues is except from been advised of planned engineer works. These have all been cleared and we have not received one since 04/05/2019.

 

I'm afraid we have to allow our suppliers full control of the repair therefore, if the issue persists an engineers visit will be required.

 

Thank you.

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 Lewis G
 Infrastructure Operations Professional
JonesTheSteam
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Re: Leading question about Fibre Broadband speeds... BT vs Plusnet

To address one of the points you made, the neighbours who appear to get significantly better download speeds than myself are connected to the same pole as I am.

An engineer tested the lines at the top of the pole and found no interference issues.

I was also told that half of the road is connected on aluminium as opposed to copper. I believe I am actually on copper which should help matters even though it appears it hasn't.

That said, after all the engineer visits and all the investigations what happens if I do just unfortunately find myself on an isolated and antiquated piece of the Openreach network incapable of reaching a guaranteed minimum speed?

What is the priority and escalation to get this issue resolved if the problem proves to be is with the Openreach infrastructure?

My area has been highlighted as getting FTTP on various BT websites and documentation. Given the issues being experienced down the length of the road does this not change its priority?
Jubby
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Re: Leading question about Fibre Broadband speeds... BT vs Plusnet

Thank you for getting back in touch @JonesTheSteam,

If the sync speed of your service is unable to achieve within the minimum guaranteed access line speed of 30Mb and this is confirmed by Openreach, you are free to exit a contract without early termination fees. If you are out of contract, you can continue to use the service but we wouldn't be able to investigate issues with sync speed moving forward.

 

I can't provide you an accurate answer on the priority of a repair if the issue is within Openreach's infrastructure as it is dependent on what the issue is and what is required to resolve the fault. If the circuit continues to drop we can escalate the matter further within Openreach.

 

FTTP isn't something that we provide although we used to have a trial available and I don't have any information to share on when it will become available to you.

 

Thanks again.

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 Lewis G
 Infrastructure Operations Professional
JonesTheSteam
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Re: Leading question about Fibre Broadband speeds... BT vs Plusnet

I appreciate that you cannot really comment on services that are not currently available like FTTP that is why I am trying to find out if there is any chance at all that in an area with multiple identified issues might be prioritised in extreme circumstances.

And I know I am able to leave without penalty but guess what?

The only broadband services available in my area are on the exact same Openreach infrastructure I am currently on.

So unless the Plusnet service is capped in some way and BT are holding back a few mbps for themselves, changing providers just means I need to log another complaint with a new ISP and start this merry dance again and after 5 years of issues I'm not really prepared to do that if I'm being honest.