Inept BT Openreach engineers? My speed trashed

[#1]

After finding my Internet connection was dropping frequently all afternoon, I went down to the riser cupboard in my block of flats.
There I found 2 BT Openreach engineers.
They said they were on-site simply to install a new phone line for one flat, but had discovered that there was a major fault and every flat had no service due to suspected cable damage in the riser cabinet.

That claim was nonsense as I'm working from home and so online all day and making frequent phone calls (as I told them, but politely).

But the OR engineer insisted there was cable damage in the six feet of cable from where it enters the riser cupboard to the frame cabinet where it is divided into pairs serving the flats (even though there was no visible damage). They said they had tested every line pair for every flat and there was no dial-tone on any of them.
That contradicted my first-hand experience of a working phone line and a working but interrupted Internet service.

Their 'solution' (to a non-existent problem) was to saw off the incoming cable and spend 4 hours patching in a new cable for that 6 feet.

PROBLEM: as a result of this, my connection speed has, in the last 12 hours, dropped from 18/71 to 6/58. The 6 is a real problem as part of my work involves shifting large data up and down.

COMPLAINT: The work was unnecessary and has at best introduced an additional cable join. How do I tell BT OR about this?

Thanks, Mark

p.s. I did tell the BT OR men my speed was trashed and they did a line test down in the riser cupboard and said my line was capable of 31/81 but was showing as 10/60 (I am paying for 20/80).

[#2]

Hi @markv 

Not too sure what they are saying all that for, for two reasons.

1) Your line estimates peek at 78Mbps download and 20Up (see here) 

2) Your router is syncing at 52.5Mbps 

Do you know/did they say which ISP booked them out? 

Testing has found no fault on the circuit at all. 

Kind Regards, 

MoR

[#3]

Thanks very much for your reply.

I've just done a test at http://www.speedtest.btwholesale.com/ and it reports

Download speedachieved during the test was - 45.71 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 40 Mbps-48.43 Mbps .
Additional Information: IP Profile for your line is - 48.43 Mbps

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 6.27Mbps
Additional Information: Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps

My router is reporting:

Profile    State    UP Speed    Down Speed    SNR Upstream    SNR Downstream
  17A    SHOWTIME    8,495 (Kbps)    54,997 (Kbps)    12 (dB)    10 (dB)

48Mbps down is disspaointing at it was 71 before BTOR started mucking about, but the upload dropping from 18 to 6.27 is a disaster.

I've got 60 GB to upload, which is now going to take 3 x as long unless I can find a resolution.

The profile of 48 may explain the drop in downstream, but I don't see an explanation for the huge drop in upstream.

I didn't ask the engineers which ISP they were working for but I could find out if necessary. Puzzled at their claim, Your line is showing as 10/60 (on a large hand-held device they connected to my pair in the riser cupboard to test).

Any thought most gratefully received.

[#4]

The work was unnecessary and has at best introduced an additional cable join.

In your opinion

[#5]

@markv,

I've run some testing and to be honest I think there are some issues showing that will allow us to go down the fault route. Here the GEA:

You're ever so slightly above the minimum guaranteed speeds, but I've raised a fault on the line anyway because I think we still have a good chance of going down the speed breach route. Before we progress it can you do me a favour and run a few speed tests, at least one wired and one wireless so we've got them logged. If would be useful if you could ensure that all internal wiring is isolated too just so we get that out of the way too. 

[#6]

@JOLO Thanks for your response. I have added test results to the ticket (5.7 up, 45.9 down).

Not long ago it was 17 up and 71 down.

So rather perplexed it says "For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 40 Mbps-48.43 Mbps ."

How come when I've got logs to show I was getting 65-73 down for the last year?

The VPN connection drops I mentioned in another forum post look like they are my employers fault, so irellevant and can be ignored - strange coincidence they happened at the same time.

[#7]

Thanks for getting back to us @markv

Over time Openreach can amend estimates based on real-life performance. For example in cases where crosstalk brings the speeds down Openreach will amend the estimates as at this moment in time there is no widespread solution for getting rid of crosstalk as this is electrical interference that builds up in the cabinet.

Having said that as per @JOLO 's test above and the one I've run this morning it's detecting potential Repetitive Electrical Impulse Noise (REIN for short) and Crosstalk so it's likely that your line would benefit from another engineer visit for further investigation.

I've updated your open fault ticket with more details which you can respond to online here or by text.

If you can post back here once you've responded we'll get that picked up straight away for you

[#8]

@MatthewWheeler Many thanks for your response. I have responded to the fault ticket with a list of dates.

best regards, Mark

[#9 · Accepted solution]

Thanks for getting back to me @markv.

I've now booked the engineers visit for you and updated the ticket with the details.

I'm monitoring this for you personally now as well

Let us know how you get on after the visit

[#10]

Hi @MatthewWheeler 

The BTOR engineer just left. Extremely helpful.

He said the problem was a faulty card in my street cabinet (actually several faulty cards, andI'm connected to one of them). He discovered that because there was a fibre team working on the cabinet at the time he was there. That team said they had identified the faulty cards and another team would be replacing them 'in a few days'.

In the meantime he has 'reset my line', which has increased by upstream sync from 8 to 19, which is fantastic. Downstream back up to 60; interestingly downstream only has changed from Fast to Interleave.

I guess those speeds could drift downwards until the card is replaced, but that should be soon.

All looking good. Many thanks for your help.

Mark

D'oh - spoke too soon. 5 minutes later and upstream dropped from 19 to 14. Never mind, still expect the card replacement to fix the problem.

[#11]

Hey @markv,

Thanks for keeping us updated! I'm glad to hear its starting to work correctly again, please do give us a nudge should you notice any further issues.

Thanks.

[#12]

@MatthewWheeler 

re

For example in cases where crosstalk brings the speeds down Openreach will amend the estimates as at this moment in time there is no widespread solution for getting rid of crosstalk as this is electrical interference that builds up in the cabinet.

Does this mean that due to crosstalk, which occurs as more people use the cable for asdl or vdsl OR will reduce the hand-back/minimum guaranteed speed? If so then they are potentially in breach of contract (unless this is written into a contract visible to OR-ISP-Consumer)

One suspects OR are trying to milk the consumer via the ISP and are scared the mobile providers are going to wake up soon and supply a better service at a lower cost.

Which will arrive first I wonder, 5G or Boris's Wonderful Fibre to the property scheme?

[#13]

@dws1900 Generally speaking the majority of the time when estimates are changed it's the top end of the estimate that's changed. The minimum guaranteed speed we give out during signup is based off the low part of the high estimate with another drop to account for things outside of our control such as wireless interference and so on.

Regardless of any change in estimates down the line, the minimum guaranteed speed given at sign up is always the one we go off. 

[#14]

@MatthewWheeler 

re

The minimum guaranteed speed we give out during signup is based off the low part of the high estimate with another drop to account for things outside of our control such as wireless interference and so on.

Why?, how is this determined?, and as PN always insist (rightly so) that the consumers connects to the test socket directly and not to use wifi, ie ether-net to the router, is there any need to lower the threshold?

Please elaborate on the 'and so on' bit, I am now greatly intrigued.

Please do not  be afraid to get technical, its not a problem for me.

[#15]

I thought that the minimum guaranteed download speed is defined as the 10th percentile speed of similar lines (based on attenuation). This is defined in Ofcom's broadband speeds codes of practice.