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Huge BufferBloat issues.

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Grafter
Posts: 42
Thanks: 3
Registered: ‎16-04-2019

Huge BufferBloat issues.

I moved into my new house early December, it is a brand new house and the infrastructure is also completely new and ever since then, I have had terrible service from Plusnet which is very disappointing considering I have been a customer for 7 years.

 

Playing any online games is almost impossible with these BufferBloat issues, latency up to 770ms in some situations.

Even playing on servers in London I see spikes of up to 300ms, my American friends get lower latency than I do on servers in London.

http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/48623501

I have had BT/Openreach Engineers out, several chats with Plusnet support and nothing has been done to improve this, Plusnet support decided I had a faulty router and sent me out a new one, this didn't change anything at all.

 

I'm honestly at the point where I just want out of my contract, what were a wonderful 7 years where I even recommended to everyone to Plusnet who was looking for a new ISP, after my last 6 months of service I honestly don't think I'd ever recommend this service to anyone ever again. I'm on this forum now because this is my last hope, if I can't get the support here then it is clear Plusnet cannot and will not fix my issues.

 

edit:

All tests performed are on Desktops with 1GB Ethernet adapters.

92 REPLIES 92
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Grafter
Posts: 42
Thanks: 3
Registered: ‎16-04-2019

Re: Huge BufferBloat issues.

1. Product name: Plusnet Hub
2. Serial number: +081441+NQ********
3. Firmware version: Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.263 Last updated 21/03/19
4. Board version: Plusnet Hub One
5. DSL uptime: 2 days, 19:40:07
6. Data rate: 8367 / 51774
7. Maximum data rate: 8376 / 53717
8. Noise margin: 5.9 / 3.5
9. Line attenuation: 36.3 / 22.9
10. Signal attenuation: 36.1 / 20.5
11. Data sent/received: 5.6 GB / 130.0 GB
12. Broadband username: ****@plusdsl.net
13. 2.4 GHz Wireless network/SSID: GEO15FAR
14. 2.4 GHz Wireless connections: Enabled (802.11 b/g/n (up to 144 Mb/s))
15. 2.4 GHz Wireless security: WPA2
16. 2.4 GHz Wireless channel: Automatic (Smart Wireless)
17. 5 GHz Wireless network/SSID: GEO15FAR
18. 5 GHz Wireless connections: Enabled (802.11 a/n/ac (up to 1300 Mb/s))
19. 5 GHz Wireless security: WPA2
20. 5 GHz Wireless channel: Automatic (Smart Wireless)
21. Firewall: Default
22. MAC Address: e8:ad:a6:ea:83:9a
23. Modulation: G.993.2 Annex B
24. Software variant: AA
25. Boot loader: 1.0.0
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Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 23,499
Thanks: 4,018
Fixes: 1,032
Registered: ‎11-01-2008

Re: Huge BufferBloat issues.


Moderators Note


This topic has been moved from ADSL Broadband to Fibre

Customer / Moderator
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If it fixed it click 'This fixed my problem'
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Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 1,149
Fixes: 76
Registered: ‎06-08-2018

Re: Huge BufferBloat issues.

@IAmGeo,

 

It's a difficult one to resolve because testing doesn't show anything that could be causing a problem, which is what the contacts to us and the engineers have also found. 

 

Your firmware is the newest one available, and we've tried to eliminate the hardware as a cause by replacing it as you've noted. 

 

Can I ask does the issue occur on a particular device (Gaming PC, Xbox One, PS4), is it a particular game you're having problems with, a particular gaming server (if so is it possible to confirm the gaming server you connect to). 

 

Do you have any port forwarding set in your router for the game(s).

If it's a PC do you have anti-virus/firewall in place that could be causing a bottleneck.

Are you running any other devices at the same time, for example 4k streaming etc, that could cause lag spikes on the connection when gaming?

 

Unfortunately this isn't something our router enables you to do (most ISP routers offer limited functionality), but if you have a spare store bought router do you have the option to set up a quality of service offering, or Smart Queue to manage the traffic across your internal network and you router handling it. 

 

 

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Joe
 Plusnet Help Team
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Grafter
Posts: 42
Thanks: 3
Registered: ‎16-04-2019

Re: Huge BufferBloat issues.

Can I ask does the issue occur on a particular device (Gaming PC, Xbox One, PS4), is it a particular game you're having problems with, a particular gaming server (if so is it possible to confirm the gaming server you connect to).

It's not limited to one particular device or game, if it was limited to a particular game then DSL reports wouldn't show these insanely high increases in latency. 

 

Do you have any port forwarding set in your router for the game(s).

If it's a PC do you have anti-virus/firewall in place that could be causing a bottleneck.

Are you running any other devices at the same time, for example 4k streaming etc, that could cause lag spikes on the connection when gaming?

No port forwarding other than my Plex server for external access, UPnP is enabled since my network is primarily for gaming/streaming the ease of use vs security is a trade-off I am happy to accept using UPnP. I also experience the same results at early hours of the morning when every other device is turned off except my own PC because I hardly sleep lol.

 

Unfortunately this isn't something our router enables you to do (most ISP routers offer limited functionality), but if you have a spare store bought router do you have the option to set up a quality of service offering, or Smart Queue to manage the traffic across your internal network and you router handling it. 

Unfortunately, I do not, though it's beginning to look like I will have to invest in a proper 3rd party router or start exploring pfsense or untangle "DIY" solutions that fix Bufferbloat - What I really don't understand though is using the same Plusnet supplied model of router at my previous address I did not have any bufferbloat issues, I didn't even move that far, I am still on the same exchange. 

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Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 722
Thanks: 100
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Registered: ‎25-02-2019

Re: Huge BufferBloat issues.

Hi @ IAmGeo

Could it be that the Plex server is affecting the latency as in some cases it would do.

 

I would try to

  • Disable UPnP in router settings
  • Disable DLNA in Plex settings

It could also be as simple as a recent Plex update that has changed things for you to affect your latency.

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Faris
 Plusnet Help Team
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Grafter
Posts: 42
Thanks: 3
Registered: ‎16-04-2019

Re: Huge BufferBloat issues.

That did occur to me, but I always disable plex and turn off that machine when I am doing any troubleshooting.

The latency spikes are persistent even when my machine which is purely for gaming only, is the only device on the network.

 

The only thing I have actually found that makes a small difference is Gigabyte LAN optimizer, putting my games in high priority mode definitely lowers latency, however, there are still spikes up to 300ms but they are less frequent by far.

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Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 1,915
Fixes: 75
Registered: ‎11-01-2018

Re: Huge BufferBloat issues.

 

Hi @IAmGeo

 

Thanks for the update.

 

I'll be honest, at this stage, we're limited in terms of what else we can suggest in terms of the infrastructure and equipment we provide. We've tested the line (fine) sent an engineer to test the line end to end (fine) and sent another router (same issue, unlikely to be two faulty routers). As much as I sympathise with the lag issues you're experiencing, I would say it's unlikely that the issue relates to our support remit.

 

That's not to say that we aren't willing to help, I just feel that the support we can provide (a further engineer for example) is unlikely to resolve the issue and I'm loathe to waste your time pursuing that avenue needlessly.

 

If you're already tried disabling UPnP in the router settings, I would perhaps throw this open to the wider community to ascertain whether something we're unaware of, or something that lies outside of our infrastructure could be causing the lag you describe.

 

Unfortunately, at this stage, we're only able to provide support on your physical connection to the exchange (and the infrastructure inbetween) and all testing we've done on that basis has come back with no fault found. I feel repeating that process will only yield the same results - but I'm happy to do so if you wish. Alternatively, our community may be able to provide an alternative resolution via this thread.

 

Best wishes

 

Dave

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Grafter
Posts: 42
Thanks: 3
Registered: ‎16-04-2019

Re: Huge BufferBloat issues.

Inked20190520221753_1_LI.jpg

I'm still having these same problems, it's completely ruined online gaming for me which I loved to spend my evenings doing.

I honestly don't even know what to do anymore, I'm stuck paying for this piece of [-Censored-] internet, I wish i could get out of it and just try a different ISP. I'm so so so so frustrated with this.

 

NIK is my American friend, he's over 4300 miles away and has the same ping as i do to a server hosted in London.

How can this even be acceptable?

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Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 1,832
Thanks: 319
Fixes: 105
Registered: ‎26-03-2018

Re: Huge BufferBloat issues.

Hi @IAmGeo,

 

I'm sorry that you're still experiencing problems with your connection and for the inconvenience caused. Testing your line is now picking up a fault, but it's unclear as to whether this lies internal or external to your property so we'll need to do some troubleshooting to try and get to the bottom of this:

GEA Test Detail
Circuit ID NA Service ID BBEUXXXXXXXXX
 
 
Test Outcome Fail
Test Outcome Code GTC_FTTC_SERVICE_1613
Description Potential HR Joint detected on GEA service. Please continue to submit a trouble report
Main Fault Location CE
Sync Status In Sync
Downstream Speed 33.3 Mbps
Upstream Speed 1.1 Mbps
Appointment Required Y
Fault Report Advised Y
NTE Power Status PowerOn
Voice Line Test Result Pass
Bridge Tap Not Detected
Radio Frequency Ingress Detected
Repetitive Electrical Impulse Noise Not Detected
Cross Talk Detected
Estimated Line Length In Metres 888.3
Upstream Rate Assessment Very Good
Downstream Rate Assessment Very Good
Interference Pattern Not Detected
Service Impact No Impact Observed
Home Wiring Problem Not Detected
Downstream Policing Discard Rate 0.0
Customer Traffic Level Upstream and Downstream Traffic Detected
Technology VDSL
Profile Name 0.128M-80M Downstream 3dB, Retransmission Low - 0.128M-20M Upstream, Retransmission Low
Time Stamp 2019-05-08T09:15:00
Parameters MIN MAX AVG
Down Stream Line Rate 31.8 Mbps 54.7 Mbps 47.8 Mbps
Up Stream Line Rate 1.1 Mbps 8.7 Mbps 6.6 Mbps
Up Time 801.0 Sec 900.0 Sec 899.4 Sec
Retrains 0.0 1.0 0.0
Current and Last 15 Minute Bin Performance
Parameters Last Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins) Current Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins)
Start Time Stamp 2019-05-21T07:56:38Z 2019-05-21T08:11:38Z
Ingress Code Violation 0 0
Egress Code Violation 0 0
Errored Seconds 0 0
Severely Errored Seconds 0 0
Unavailable Seconds 0 0

 

I'd recommend starting with basic checks here. If these checks don't resolve the problem, the next step would be to connect your router directly to the test socket, which is under the faceplate of your master socket and seeing if the connection stabilises This rules out internal wiring, face plates and extension sockets as being the cause. Please see the following guide for instructions on how to connect to the test socket. https://community.plus.net/t5/Library/Testing-From-The-Master-Socket/ba-p/1322242

 

Please let us know if the connection issue persists when connected to the test socket.

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Emily D
 Plusnet Help Team
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Grafter
Posts: 42
Thanks: 3
Registered: ‎16-04-2019

Re: Huge BufferBloat issues.

Ok so I have moved my entire gaming PC setup down stairs along with the router and plugged it into the master socket test port.

This way I can continue using direct ethernet connections without the need for Wireless or A Powerline network

IMG_20190521_143801.jpgIMG_20190521_144542.jpg

Later on this evening i will be able to test if there is any difference in latency and download and upload speeds.

I reccomend that you also rerun your tests later on in the evening when the problem is usually at it's utter worst.

I live in a new development area, houses are popping up faster than you can count, and the single node which resides roughly 800-900m away from me serves the entire area around me, which is roughly 500-750 houses. with many many more on the way, I have a strong feeling this node is over-crowded and is why the latency is so terrible in the evenings.

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Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 626
Thanks: 115
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Registered: ‎06-08-2018

Re: Huge BufferBloat issues.

Hi @IAmGeo,

Thank you for connecting to the test socket and for removing your power-line adapters from the equation.

 

Let us know how the performance tests go this evening and we can re-run the service test as soon as possible. I have checked the virtual path that your circuit is connected through, this report is generated every Monday. It is showing as green and not over utilised therefore, shouldn't be causing issues during peak times. By all means, once the fault is raised we can get in touch with our suppliers to confirm that usage isn't over threshold but looking at the report it doesn't suggest so.

 

Thanks again.

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Lewis G
 Infrastructure Operations Professional
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Grafter
Posts: 42
Thanks: 3
Registered: ‎16-04-2019

Re: Huge BufferBloat issues.

Just to clarify, there was never any powerline adapters on my network to start with, i just happen to have some, but to avoid using them, i moved my entire setup downstairs to where the master-socket is. I will update this thread later this evening with the results of a few tests and games.

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All Star
Posts: 995
Thanks: 163
Fixes: 26
Registered: ‎18-10-2008

Re: Huge BufferBloat issues.

fwiw, something else to consider is your downstream noise margin is very low at 3.5dB.

6. Data rate: 8367 / 51774
8. Noise margin: 5.9 / 3.5

 

Profile Name 0.128M-80M Downstream 3dB, Retransmission Low - 0.128M-20M Upstream, Retransmission Low

Check if it still floats around 3dB immediately after turning on the modem, or whether it is nearer normal 6dB.  It could be your line perhaps can't work reliably on the new 3dB profile which DLM may have perhaps applied?

 

 

 

 

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Grafter
Posts: 42
Thanks: 3
Registered: ‎16-04-2019

Re: Huge BufferBloat issues.

When the open reach engineer came to my house early april (or late march, i can't remember anymore) he also stated that the noise marigin was set very low and called someone to have it raised from 3 to 6.

I'm not sure anymore if this was for the upstream or downstream.

Immediately after restarting the router this was the result:

8. Noise margin: 6.0 / 3.1

 

Every few minutes it will flucuate between 5.5-6.0 / 2.2-3.5