G.Inp on Huawei FTTC Cabinet

[#1]

Have been on fibre for nearly 5 weeks after ADSL conversion.
I am on a Huawei FTTC cabinet and using a G.Inp compatable modem, HG612 running G.Inp compatable firmware.
G.Inp (BT term this retransmission) has not as yet been applied to my line.
I know there is a school of thought that G.Inp is only applied to lines where DLM deems this necessary, however BT's chief engineer would appear to contradict this belief, see kitz interview here, http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/ginp-retransmission.htm

My line is performing fully to spec., my DS synch. rate is actually slightly above profile, US rate is as per my contract.
After fibre conversion I was originally on DS fast path, after a few days DLM re-synch'ed to DS interleaving due to high DS ES rate, reverting back to DS fast path again by DLM action 4 days later where I have stayed ever since.
It is a fact that G.Inp will considerably improve DS ES rate without the associated overheads that interleaving causes, ie., decreased DS synch. rate and increased latency.

So what would be the advantage of G.Inp application on my line ?
Line would have a better DS error profile making it unlikely that DLM would intervene in the future and make any changes.

It is my understanding that BT G.Inp (retransmission) is now active on all Huawei cabinets, however, the roll out of revised software to ECI cabinets may still be ongoing.

[#2]

There is some evidence to suggest that BTOR withdrew G.INP support from modems not fully compliant with their SIN498 technical specification just before Easter. This has been claimed to be the reason why many users of the Asus DSL-AC68 reported loss of G.INP on their connection around that time.

[#3]

"NorthPole", many thanks fore the response and the link to SIN498, interesting reading.

I appreciate that the link I included to the kitz interview with BT chief engineer is now 2 years old, there still appears to be many grey areas regarding G.Inp implementation and triggering method, have never managed to get a definitive answer in the short time I have been involved since migration to fibre early June 17, I notice that even PN staff appear to be avoiding this thread, perhaps my fault in appearing to answer my own question in the original post.
Would still welcome a PN staff view !

As stated, I am using a Huawei HG612 modem running unlocked, G.Inp firmware, definately compatable.
Would it be possible for the FTTC cabinet to selectively "ban" some routers/modems as per the issue with Asus models, I would have thought not but I could be wrong, certainly should not be the case with my hardware.

I subscribe to and use the excellent MyDSLWebStats on line facility, here I can see all the current members live & historic router stat's., the vast majority are using Huawei modems (due to their very good stat's. monitoring capability), the only users who have G.Inp inactive or never applied are on ECI FTTC cabinets with the known software compatability issue.
I am currently an exception to this, ie., on a Huawei cabinet with G.Inp not applied. (yet)

[#4]

tiffy, as you're using a BTOR-supplied Broadcom-based modem connected to a Huawei cabinet I agree that G.INP should surely be supported! As regards the possibility of some Asus modem/routers being blocked by BTOR from using a G.INP connection, I can only assume it's done by chipset detection (the DSL-AC86U has a Mediatek DSL chipset).

[#5]

NorthPole, thanks for your further response.

Ref. the Asus modem/router / G.Inp issue, I suppose it's possible that could be the case, in the absence of any definitive knowledge on this system operation, users experience is probably the best guide currently available, as I have already said, G.Inp implementation is a very grey area even amongst the very informed members of this and the kitz forums.

Can't really blame the PN staff for not commenting, can not imagine that they would be in a position to know any more than the forum members do or indeed have the ability to extract any further information from BT..

I'am still hoping that G.Inp will eventually be applied, some parties in a similar position to myself have waited 6 to 8 weeks from connection for G.Inp implementation so still a chance.
Unfortunately, none of my neighbours who share the same infrastructure have the monitoring capabilities to find out if G.Inp is active on their lines, mostly retirees who don't really care what's happening as long as the I-Player is working, not a criticism I hasten to add, it's the view of the vast majority of BB users, we can't all be geeks !

[#6]

tiffy, I share your frustration. My own router stats. show 177 CRC errors downstream and 61 upstream over an 11 day period; even if every CRC comprised an individual ES, the figures seem surely good enough for DLM to allow G.INP correction rather than the present Interleaving.

[#7]

"NorthPole", by observation of subscribing members on the MyDLSWebStats site who are currently running with G.Inp applied (all on Huawei FTTC cabinets) it appears that DS interleaving is in service also but to a fairly low depth, appears to be a by-product of G.Inp, however, there does not appear to be any DS synch. rate loss which is normally associated with interleaving.
I don't believe there is any, or as much latency increase also associated with DS interleaving application but obviously can not tell from stat's. observation on the MDWS site.

I can also observe the before and after effect of G.Inp implementation on subscribers lines from their historic data, the decrease in DS ES rate is quite dramatic.

[#8]

There's no fixed and constant increase in latency or significant loss of bandwidth associated with retransmission, but there would be delays and loss of throughput varying with how much data actually gets re-transmitted. It's not reported in the "sync rate", but the IP Profile does tend to be a lower percentage of the "sync speed" on "Retransmission High" profiles (probably because it's using the ETR instead of the "sync speed", and it's making allowances for the expected loss of throughput caused by re-transmitting data).

[#9]

"ejs", many thanks for the additional information ref. G.Inp (retransmission), if ever enabled on my line I should get the chance to observe these changes on my MDWS stat's., still waiting, 5 weeks since fibre migration today.

[#10]

@tiffy sorry for bringing back an old thread but I could today have written almost the same comments as you did back in July 17. That is in terms of waiting for G.Inp to get activated on a Huawei cabinet with a HG612 and on MyDSLWebStats I'm now the odd one out with 99% of Huawei's having G.Inp activated.

MyDSLWebStats is a really useful tool and if I've picked up your username correctly, it looks like you did eventually have G.Inp enabled later on in July? I therefore have a couple of questions please;

1) Did you do anything to make this happen, or just continued to play waiting game?

2) I believe MyDSLWebStats is now showing you moved to the Zyxel VMG1312-B10A router, has that provided you with any line performance improvements over the HG612?

Thanks 

[#11]

It's specific to the Asus DSL-AC68U ADSL/VDSL modem/router (Mediatek modem chipset), but this thread may be of interest.

[#12]

@dgilbert2

Yes, looks like you have been very unlucky with respect to DS G.Inp (retransmission) deployment, DS G.Inp should be applied by default on Huawei cabs to compatable modem's, HG612 definately is, my line deployment finally took 7 weeks &1 day, the longest I have seen recorded on the kitz forum is 11 weeks.

I'am not aware of any trigger event which finally instigated G.Inp deployment in my case, others have reported exactly the same, DLM just appears to finally apply in most cases.

As you are probably aware, US G,Inp application is not by default and quite unusual, only a few MDWS users showing active US G.Inp, always appears to be applied when genuine very high US ES rates exist (ILQ red condition) and is usually removed again quite quickly my DLM when this condition improves, some say too quickly, for example, have a look at "vic0239" MDWS US ES rate stat's, period from 12/01 to 22/01 when US G.Inp was applied/removed.

Only thing I can suggest, try to get PN support staff to process a DLM reset, this facility has only very recently become available to PN on a trial basis via BTw but very strictly limited, I know of one forum member who has had success with this and managed to remove long term US line banding when nothing else would.
A DLM reset removed G.Inp (where previously active) and sets line to a preset profile, a DLM re-synch then usually occurs within 2 days and G.Inp is restored.
Perhaps worth a try ?

Suppose for process of elimination if nothing else you should really try another modem in the very unlikely event your HG612 was faulty with respect to G.Inp compatability.

Yes, I did move to a ZyXEL VMG1312B10A, very highly recommended by the "in the know" members of kitz forum, although, a lot use just as a modem only (bridge mode) with a prefered router of their choice.
Believe there can be IPv6 compatability issues when used as a router should this be a concern.
To be absolutely honest, not a big performance difference on my line from the HG612 but have found the 1312-B10A to be a very stable unit, better noise rejection, nice GUI and I prefer the one box solution.

As NorthPole mentions in his post, I believe some Asus modems are being locked out of DSLAM's by BTw/OR systems, still a lot of end users who like their capabilities and get around the issue by using in bridge mode with a HG612 or more usually a ZyXEL as a modem & the Asus unit as a router.

Good luck with your quest, I will follow your MDWS stat's with interest.

[#13]

@tiffy many thanks for your interesting and detailed reply.

I was not aware of the DLM reset trial so thanks, but will leave things alone for a couple of weeks to see if the current line stability can "make things happen" 

The HG612 was only dusted off, firmware updated, on Friday ( 2/2/18 ) and the line is SO much more stable now comparing the current graphs from a couple of weeks when I was trying a TP-Link W9970. The TP-Link also needed resetting every couple of days to keep my Multicast Youview channels working. It had also triggered Interleave to kick in due to high line errors which has gone again with the HG612. Horrible router looking back, glad its gone.

Prior to all this I had been with PN since 1/12/17 (coming from BT on a 3db profile and about 15Mbps faster) using my trusted Home Hub 5B, but had no other detail on the line stats. Since there was no DLM activity with that hub whatsoever in over 35 days, I was curious to take a look at my line stats so picked up a cheap W9970 in the January sales.

Fingers crossed that the DLM will now start to return things to my pre-Plusnet profile 

BT Infinity 2 customer - 74Mbps @ 3db (guessing with G.Inp also)

V

PN customer - currently 57Mbps @ 6db ("Fast")