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G.INP

AndyH
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,824
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎27-10-2012

Re: G.INP

Quote from: mlmclaren
as his current kit (ECI Modem) isn't compatible with G.IN

His equipment must be compatible because he is still connected to his DSLAM. Non-compatible equipment with G.INP enabled at the DSLAM should mean that DLM does not apply the retransmission profile. All the evidence so far suggests that this is working as it should.
Quote from: mlmclaren
The main issue also seems to be that they didn't roll out the firmwares that made equipment (both Huawei & ECI ) support G.INP before they rolled out G.INP...

OR rolled out support for both G.INP and vectoring at modem level some time ago. Whether the firmware updates worked and were successful on every modem is another question.
The other thing you have to remember is that this issue has only come to light in the past week or so, but the rollout had already covered some 1.5m lines by then.
mlmclaren
Grafter
Posts: 855
Registered: ‎04-12-2014

Re: G.INP

How can you say his modem does support G.INP.. mine didn't but it still worked just at an impacted rate as it confused the different profile for something else...
OR obviously didn't roll out up to date firmware as people wouldn't be having these issues would they...
You say about the roll out starting a while back and being successful... thats fine but obviously somewhere a ballsup has been made....
Like I said a think a step has been missed during the rollout...
AndyH
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,824
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎27-10-2012

Re: G.INP

Perhaps I am not being clear?  Undecided
If a modem does not support g.inp/retransmission, then Openreach's modem management systems will pick this up and the updated line profiles (which include retransmission) *should not* be applied. If they were applied to a line that has an incompatible modem, then the modem would no longer sync with the DSLAM.
OR perform constant updates to both the modems they supplied and also the DSLAMS. To say they didn't roll out a firmware update is nonsense.
It's entirely possible this could be something to do with the fact that OR have had issues with MA5616/MA5603T line cards due to something called ELE-M1. They are in the process of replacing the affected line cards (I think the timing of the replacement coincides with the first reports of issues).
mlmclaren
Grafter
Posts: 855
Registered: ‎04-12-2014

Re: G.INP

Quote from: AndyH
Perhaps I am not being clear?  Undecided
If a modem does not support g.inp/retransmission, then Openreach's modem management systems will pick this up and the updated line profiles (which include retransmission) *should not* be applied. If they were applied to a line that has an incompatible modem, then the modem would no longer sync with the DSLAM.
OR perform constant updates to both the modems they supplied and also the DSLAMS. To say they didn't roll out a firmware update is nonsense.
It's entirely possible this could be something to do with the fact that OR have had issues with MA5616/MA5603T line cards due to something called ELE-M1. They are in the process of replacing the affected line cards (I think the timing of the replacement coincides with the first reports of issues).

Perhaps I'm not being clear...
I'm not saying the modems don't support G.INP but they seem to not have a full understanding of the NEW profiles...
The DLM applied a G.INP profile to my line and it seems many others before the firmware was fully able to support/recognise G.INP profiles...
As you say they SHOULD NOT be applied to equipment that isn't supporting it but it seems some sort of configuration has been applied to all modems causing speed and latency issues...
If line cards are the issues then why would updating ones modem firmware fix the issues as confirmed by many user of the HG612 modem around this forum and TBB too..
AndyH
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,824
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Registered: ‎27-10-2012

Re: G.INP

Quote from: mlmclaren
I'm not saying the modems don't support G.INP but they seem to not have a full understanding of the NEW profiles...

Well I am confused because you stated exactly this earlier:
Quote from: mlmclaren
How can you say his modem does support G.INP.. mine didn't

Quote from: mlmclaren
If line cards are the issues then why would updating ones modem firmware fix the issues as confirmed by many user of the HG612 modem around this forum and TBB too..

I am saying that the current or changed line cards (whether physical or firmware) might have a bug or issue with modems running a specific firmware.
If what you're saying about ECI modems is correct, then should all ECI modems have the same latency increase/downstream speed loss when retransmission is applied?
goldenfibre
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 3,222
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Fixes: 12
Registered: ‎01-06-2010

Re: G.INP

Another interesting post by Locky that OR Engineer have to force reset the DLM over G.INP here: http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=27851703&postcount=34
mlmclaren
Grafter
Posts: 855
Registered: ‎04-12-2014

Re: G.INP

Quote from: AndyH
If what you're saying about ECI modems is correct, then should all ECI modems have the same latency increase/downstream speed loss when retransmission is applied?

Yes if the ECI modem hasn't had the firmware updated to fully support G.INP and it's profiles nd obviously in cases where the ECI modem is on a Huawei cabinet and will vary dependant on line conditions as the profiles will vary of course... But yes I'm saying all would be affected in some manor..
It depends if the rollout has been the same or not too... OR might of picked up these issue and changed a step in the rollout that fixes the issue for other areas... maybe pushing the firmware and confirming it active before a rollout... or even limiting the G.INP rollout to broadcom chips only!
chrcoluk
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,990
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Registered: ‎11-12-2013

Re: G.INP

openreach are already aware of ECI modem issues because a openreach engineer posted weeks ago the procedure's that are carried out by engineers.
In the event of an ECI failing to sync, the isp has to book an engineer, the visiting engineer will do a DLM reset and when the ECI is reconnected it will get a firmware update at that point.
w23
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,342
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Registered: ‎08-01-2008

Re: G.INP

But does that firmware update get the ECI modem fully working with G.INP, i.e. typically reverting a previously interleaved line to fastpath with a consequential reduction of latency and possibly a small increase in sync speed (as observed by users of HG612 and other, fully G.INP enabled devices)?
Call me 'w23'
At any given moment in the universe many things happen. Coincidence is a matter of how close these events are in space, time and relationship.
Opinions expressed in forum posts are those of the poster, others may have different views.
AndyH
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,824
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Registered: ‎27-10-2012

Re: G.INP

The only time that should happen is if a retransmission profile has already been applied to a line and and the modem is replaced with one that has an older non-retransmission compatible firmware.
Engineers are misinterpreting that note and trying to reset DLM (which is complicated in itself without a hard clear code) on working lines.
mlmclaren
Grafter
Posts: 855
Registered: ‎04-12-2014

Re: G.INP

Quote from: chrcoluk
openreach are already aware of ECI modem issues because a openreach engineer posted weeks ago the procedure's that are carried out by engineers.
In the event of an ECI failing to sync, the isp has to book an engineer, the visiting engineer will do a DLM reset and when the ECI is reconnected it will get a firmware update at that point.

and user with HG612 that are being interleaved and losing sync speed once the cabinets are enabled to supply G.INP?
w23
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,342
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Fixes: 4
Registered: ‎08-01-2008

Re: G.INP

HG612 that hasn't had the 'usual' firmware updates may have this problem- possibly (but not necessarily) because it's been unlocked and is no longer set to automatically allow remote updating.
Call me 'w23'
At any given moment in the universe many things happen. Coincidence is a matter of how close these events are in space, time and relationship.
Opinions expressed in forum posts are those of the poster, others may have different views.
InterZoom
Rising Star
Posts: 226
Thanks: 25
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎15-08-2014

Re: G.INP

When will this be fixed? (Whatever the problem actually is.)
Nobody cares about modems which don't sync.
Nobody is complaining about that.
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ericgripp
Grafter
Posts: 182
Registered: ‎26-04-2013

Re: G.INP

Ok so ill be the first to admit when im wrong and I might well be, the billion 8800axl is in and working, and whilst I have some sync back, its still down on what it should see,
heres the figures from the billion itself
adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:  0
Max:    Upstream rate = 29408 Kbps, Downstream rate = 88177 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 69165 Kbps
Link Power State:      L0
Mode:                  VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.1            9.1
Attn(dB):        14.2            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.0            5.4
                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:          18              36
B:              45              29
M:              1              1
T:              64              64
R:              14              10
S:              0.0212          0.0476
L:              22688          6717
😧              1219            673
I:              60              40
N:              60              40
                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            648854          192778
OHFErr:        0              0
RS:            165919613              960863
RSCorr:        3763            677
RSUnCorr:      0              0
                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0              0
OCD:            0              0
LCD:            0              0
Total Cells:    117312770              0
Data Cells:    4379069        0
Drop Cells:    0
Bit Errors:    0              0
So is it a line issue ? I find it odd theres a huge gap between max rates and what its currently syncing at
goldenfibre
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 3,222
Thanks: 175
Fixes: 12
Registered: ‎01-06-2010

Re: G.INP

^^ Your G.INP has disappear? How strange is that! Because the G.INP upstream would be 20000K not 19999K. Maybe leave it powered on for few days until G.INP will kick in.